Kicking ball

[hawkk]

The kickball in BBall has a lot of parallels to the hand ball in soccer -- both are grossly misunderstood by fans, players, and coaches. A useful phrase used by some soccer refs to explain the difference is "Hand to ball is a foul, ball to hand is not" -- in other words, you look to see if the hand moved to the ball, or if the ball "found" the hand. Seems like a good rule of thumb for Bball on the kick, too.

[donj]

Since we got off the original subject of kicking the ball, I would also like to add the inconsistency of a few officials I've observed who call traveling on players sliding across the floor with the ball but don't roll over from their back to stomach or vise versa. Sometimes I think the officials might react to calling a violation because the people in the stands and coaches don't know the rule and think it is traveling. Of course, I think this is how officials learn the game better themselves by seeing these plays and having them happen to them. I know I have. Hopefully they won't call them too often.

[ChuckElias]

My partner on Tuesday night in my college game refused to reset the shot clock b/c the player hit the ball with his thigh. Sigh.

Chuck

[zebraman]

The kickball in BBall has a lot of parallels to the hand ball in soccer -- both are grossly misunderstood by fans, players, and coaches. A useful phrase used by some soccer refs to explain the difference is "Hand to ball is a foul, ball to hand is not" -- in other words, you look to see if the hand moved to the ball, or if the ball "found" the hand. Seems like a good rule of thumb for Bball on the kick, too.

I disagree. I've seen a foot come forward and give the ball a pretty good whack, but it was obvious that it was unintenional (player was looking up and didn't even know the ball was at his feet). IMHO, it is strictly up to the official's judgment if it was intentional or not.

Z

[Hawks Coach]

Zebra - This same latitude to decide on a moving hand (violation or not) is given in soccer - and if you err on the side of finding it to be intent when there can be any question about intent, you should be fine in both sports. Clearly, a non moving hand that was not extended to play the ball in soccer is the same as a non-moving foot in basketball - neither should be called a violation, all fans want them to be violations, and refs will tend to make the wrong calls in these situations.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
My partner on Tuesday night in my college game refused to reset the shot clock b/c the player hit the ball with his thigh. Sigh.

Chuck

Are you kidding,Chuck?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Are you kidding,Chuck?

Nope, not kidding. The ball caromed off the player's thigh and went directly OOB. From the Trail, I signalled a reset. The operator reset it to 35. My partner then said, no reset. So we brought it back down to 24. I assumed that he had decided it was simply deflected OOB, and hadn't been kicked. But when we got into the locker room at halftime, I asked him and he said "He hit it above the knee, so it's not a kick, right?" Oh well.

Chuck

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Nope, not kidding. The ball caromed off the player's thigh and went directly OOB. From the Trail, I signalled a reset. The operator reset it to 35. My partner then said, no reset. So we brought it back down to 24. I assumed that he had decided it was simply deflected OOB, and hadn't been kicked. But when we got into the locker room at halftime, I asked him and he said "He hit it above the knee, so it's not a kick, right?" Oh well.

Nobody noticed,like the coach of the team that lost the 11 seconds?Sounds like your partner's got a horseshoe up his butt. Did you try to straighten him out at the half,or figure it wasn't worth it?
Btw,whose call was it originally-his or yours?

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

I'm sure I'm missing something, Chuck, but if it went of the player's thigh, it's not a kick, is it? I could swear it was the knee and below. Help me out here.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Did you try to straighten him out at the half,or figure it wasn't worth it?
Btw,whose call was it originally-his or yours?

I didn't try to straighten him out, partly b/c I had started to doubt myself in the locker room. This is a guy who officiated D1 for 8 years, and is a genuinely good guy. No airs or ego about him. I will work with him again next week, and I may mention that someone had "corrected me" about it.

It was originally his call (as Lead), but it looked like an obvious kick to me, so I gave the reset signal. I guess that was a mistake on my part.

Originally posted by Pennsylvania Coach
I'm sure I'm missing something, Chuck, but if it went off the player's thigh, it's not a kick, is it? I could swear it was the knee and below. Help me out here.

Coach, the NCAA rule is slightly different. If the action is intentional, then it's a kick no matter where it contacts the leg. Any part of the leg is considered to be kicking the ball. As far as the Fed rule goes, tho, you are exactly right! I love having informed coaches on this board. I mean that sincerely. Keep me on my toes, Coach

Chuck

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
[/B]

I didn't try to straighten him out, partly b/c I had started to doubt myself in the locker room. This is a guy who officiated D1 for 8 years, and is a genuinely good guy. No airs or ego about him. I will work with him again next week, and I may mention that someone had "corrected me" about it.

It was originally his call (as Lead), but it looked like an obvious kick to me, so I gave the reset signal. I guess that was a mistake on my part.[/B][/QUOTE]If your partner's got away with that for 8 years,he does have a horseshoe up his butt.

Isn't the mechanic for the guy making the call to also give all the signals,including the re-set? If he doesn't give an obvious re-set though,you should definitely be in talkin' to him to find out why. JMO.

Sigh! this is getting to be a habit,but I'm a nice guy.Here ya go!