USA Today Article (Michigan)

[mikesears]

See link:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps...-blowout_x.htm

Article Contents:

Mich. girls team wins 115-2, draws ire

By David Eggert, The Associated Press

DETROIT — A Michigan high school girls team is seething after it was beaten 115-2, while the winning team claims it tried hard not to run up the score.

Most expected Walkerville High School to beat Hart Lakeshore Public Academy, a school with only 50 students whose team hadn't won a game this season. But the final score from Tuesday night's playoff game incensed Lakeshore academic director Steve Hamilton.

"To me, if you run up the score like that, you have to answer for yourself," he said. "I have my doubts about a school that would go and run up a school by 100 points."

Walkerville contends that it played girls brought up from junior varsity and freshmen teams. The team also says it didn't press on defense, which it normally does, and backed off from going for the state record for points in a game (151).

"What do you tell our girls? Not to play?" Walkerville athletics director Ron Stoneman said. "It had the potential to be really, really bad."

Walkerville coach Steve Kirwin said his school doesn't schedule teams like Lakeshore in the regular season. But during the playoffs, "you play who they tell you to play."

By halftime, Kirwin said, three girls hadn't scored. So he said only they could shoot.

"I'm not going to tell my kids to not continue to play," Kirwin said. "It's not that we wanted to score a ton of points."

Before the season, the Michigan High School Athletic Association did away with a rule designed to keep margins from getting out of hand. Once a team led by 40 or more points in the second half, the clock ran continuously — unless the losing team cut the deficit to 30. MHSAA assistant director Nate Hampton said the association had to cut the rule to follow guidelines of the National Federation of State High School Associations.

Hampton said the rule helped to spare teams from embarrassment or humiliation, but he added that "coaching tactics or strategies" can be used instead.

A 115-2 score "is what we've been guarding against the last several years," he said.

[bard]

UGLY.

Which is worse, running up a score or fielding a HS team that can only score 2 points against a team not pressing. I have sympathy for the losers, but it doesn't sound to me like they have a valid gripe. Maybe they should consider a ladies' tennis program...

[Andy]

Hard to comment on what the winning team did or didn't do without seeing the game. But this does bring another question to my mind:

Why is a team that has not won a game all season in the playoffs?

I know that some states let everybody in, but I do not agree with this philosophy. Why bother with a season if everybody goes to the playoffs? I know that somebody will cite the "Hoosiers" example, but realistically, how often does this happen?

Just my opinion.....

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Andy
Hard to comment on what the winning team did or didn't do without seeing the game. But this does bring another question to my mind:

Why is a team that has not won a game all season in the playoffs?

I know that some states let everybody in, but I do not agree with this philosophy. Why bother with a season if everybody goes to the playoffs? I know that somebody will cite the "Hoosiers" example, but realistically, how often does this happen?

Just my opinion.....

This is not the pros. Most College allows everyone to play in their Post-Season Tournament. Before anyone says anything, the Big East keeps out the bottom two teams. Win the Tournmament you have a bid. This is HS and participation is very important here. Everyone should play and prove that you belong. In Illinois we have a regional system which takes everyone in the playoffs. They rank the teams and then they play. Hardly ever does a team with a record like this every get past the first game. I cannot speak for other states, but we have over 700 schools in the state. Maybe only 10 do not participate in the IHSA Tournament at the end of the year. I think it is good for the kids. This might be the last time they ever play another game at a competitive level. Afterall, this is for them.

Peace

[ScottParks]

In Texas, only the top 3 teams in each district (usually 8 teams in a district) go to the playoffs. The first place teams get a bye the first round and off they go.
Bi-district, area, regional, then state.

[Hawks Coach]

I'm from the midwest (Illinois and Michigan), currently live in Maryland. I grew up with systems that allowed all teams to make the playoffs, and love it. We even had a statewide MS tournament (but you can't have a NCAA national football championship cause kids will miss class - oops, I'm sorry, wrong subject!)

Having seen teams that have to sit home in playoffs, I prefer to see an open tournament at the HS level. Yeah, you might have a blowout like described here in a first round game, but after the first couple of games, many of the games get really good and tight. I don't believe that you need to seed so that #1 plays #1000 - #1000 will get knocked out by almost anyone (without having to suffer the 115-2 embarrassment), and you could give #1 an easy game without taking them that far down in level of play.

I coach AAU, and frequently see horrific mismatches where a top-notch national team gets put against a newly formed local team, with the 70-10 blowout being the result. Not much fun for anyone, and good tournament directors try to keep that type of stuff from happening.

[gsf23]

I've seen a team do this to another, but they tried to do it. It was a JV girls game in colorado. The score at halftime was 53 - 0. The team that was winning came out in the second half with a full court trap. In the fourth, they switched to a 1-3-1 extended half court trap. The coach told his players before the game that their goal was to win by a hundred points. Now, here is the kicker. The coach wasn't a teacher at the high school, he was a youth pastor. Final score was 114-4.

[Mark Dexter]

For those of you who have the "everyone in" tournaments, how long do they run?

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
For those of you who have the "everyone in" tournaments, how long do they run?

About 4 Weeks.

Regional--Games vary depending on Regional size or if they have a first round buy.


Sectional--2 Games


SuperSectional--1 Game


State Finals--State Champion down to the 4th Place plays 3 Games.

Each Class and each side (Boy's and Girls) starts on its own.

So the order is:

Class A Girls
Class AA Girls
Class A Boys
Class AA Boys

So in theory an officials could do both a Girl's and Boy's Post-Season games.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

In situations like this, I have always wondered why the losing team continues to play. If they really are that upset by the other team running up the score, why don't they just concede the game?
In many other contests this is an option. For example, in boxing one can "throw in the towel" and in chess resigning when it is clear you will lose is considered the graceful and sporting thing to do.
I know there are those that will argue the never quit theory, but seriously 115-2. I guess my point is that they should make a decision: either continue to play and take your beating, or say that's enough and hit the showers when it is 50-2. You certainly won't be national news in the latter case.

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

I've been on both sides of games that could've turned out, well, not like this one, but not sportsmanlike. Up 55-9 going into a fourth quarter, we went all JVs and put the old four-pass rule in. I think it was 65-23 at the end.

I've also lost a game 106-38. A lot of it was my fault, trying to press and run with a pressing and running team. But the opposing coach's daughter, gunning for the career county scoring record, didn't have to be in the game, much less scoring 14 fourth-quarter points. That stuff goes around and comes around.

My take is that there are sometimes circumstances around these games that have to be considered. This one, with the open postseason tournament style, well, I can't fault the winning coach as much as in a regular season game. Our playoffs aren't open but sometimes they get filled out with low-record teams. Those low-record teams have the option to not apply for the tournament in the first place. If you go into a playoff game 0-20 against a powerful 18-2 team, well, your eyes were wide open.

Scoring 115 points is not that many more (maybe 20 to 30) than a really good girls' team gets on a really good day. Some of this 113-point margin can be put on the opponents scoring just 2. If they were not pressing, in a zone without traps, well, I think that's the problem. If your varsity puts up 75 in the first half (never call the dogs off before halftime, no matter what), and the second team gets 20 more in the third, and the JVs get 20 in the fourth, well what can you do? Those JVs get into their first district playoff game and you tell 'em not to shoot? They work hard in practice. They've earned it.

The thing for the coaches to consider is what message they are sending to the kids. I don't think I could pull my team off the floor just because they are getting whooped; they'd pick up a quitter mentality. On the winning side, you can't quit until the opponents do. Once, up 44-17 with 3:30 left, we put the JVs in. With 1:40 left it was 44-31 and we put the varsity back in. The opponents hadn't quit, so why should we have? It nearly cost us.

[rainmaker]

The team around here that always beats everyone, has a list of strategies for this situation. A coach told it to me. Put in second string, put in third string, bring up third string freshmen (a JV team in this case), change the girls around into unfamiliar positions, and then when the third string freshmen are in unfamiliar positions, if the lead is still more than around 40, start the four or five pass rule. She said that she doesn't word this as a "being nice" thing to her players, but as a chance for some development, and to avoid the situation where a freak accident takes a starter out of the season.

[CYO Butch]

Some leagues punish coaches if they pull their team. From our Supplemental Rule Book: "Any coach, who pulls his/her team off the court prior to the official conclusion of the game, will subject themselves to an automatic one (1) game suspension..."

In this situation, the suspension would clearly be the first game the following year. So, even though I wouldn't pull my kids anyway, and I would be pretty upset :-(, the rules sure don't encourage coaches to walk their teams away from this sort of situation.

By the way, I realize the grammar and syntax in my citation aren't very good, but that's what is in our book.

[stan-MI]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
For those of you who have the "everyone in" tournaments, how long do they run?

In Michigan, our tournament lasts 3 weeks. Teams play 2 or 3 games the first week, 2 games the second week, and 3 the third. There are 4 classes of schools, based upon enrollment, so you end up with 4 state champions.

By the way, I loved the mercy rule we had for the past 3 seasons, and am sorry that it was discontinued. At the request of coaches, we implemented the rule 1 time this year, and 1 time we intentionally failed to correct a timer who did not know that the mercy rule had been eliminated. I've seen quotes from NFHS members who believe the running clock with a 40-point second-half lead will become an NFHS rule soon.

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

Just a random thought: How about a maximum score? Each level might have to set their own, with guidelines from state/NFHS. Maybe 110 points? Get to 110 and you win, game over. Max score doesn't apply in OT. Danny Heater lives forever!