Clock Start on Free Throw?

RookieDude · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 19, 2002, 09:51am

We had a good discussion last night at our Association meeting.
A question came up about when to start the clock after a free throw.
Some of the Veterans said to "chop" it in when the ball hits the floor...(When the free throw ends) Some of the "Rookies" said that per the Rule book it is the same as a throw-in, wait untill the ball touches or is touched by a player on the floor.
We read the exact wording from the rule book but had different interpretations.
When does the clock start after a free throw?

RD
(I'm with the Rookies...start it when the ball touches or is touched by a player on the floor.)

mick · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 19, 2002, 10:02am

Quote:

Originally posted by RookieDude
We had a good discussion last night at our Association meeting.
A question came up about when to start the clock after a free throw.
Some of the Veterans said to "chop" it in when the ball hits the floor...(When the free throw ends) Some of the "Rookies" said that per the Rule book it is the same as a throw-in, wait untill the ball touches or is touched by a player on the floor.
We read the exact wording from the rule book but had different interpretations.
When does the clock start after a free throw?

RD
(I'm with the Rookies...start it when the ball touches or is touched by a player on the floor.)

RD,
Starting the Shot Clock depends on the sitch:

NCAA 2-13-5 Start the timing device

when a player inbounds legally touches or is touched by the ball on a throw-in or,

when a team initially gains possession from a jump ball, an unsuccessful try for a goal or a loose ball.

I am willing to believe this, too, is then intent of HS Shot clocks.

mick

ChuckElias · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 19, 2002, 10:07am

I don't think that Rookie Dude was necessarily talking about the shot clock, although I agree with you about that ruling.

On a missed FT, the game clock should start when the ball is touched by a player. The shot clock should start when the ball is controlled by a player.

Chuck

mick · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 19, 2002, 10:12am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
I don't think that Rookie Dude was necessarily talking about the shot clock, although I agree with you about that ruling.

On a missed FT, the game clock should start when the ball is touched by a player. The shot clock should start when the ball is controlled by a player.

Chuck

Chuck,
I read about as well as I listen.
It is I who is shot.

mick

RecRef · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 19, 2002, 10:16am

When it hits the floor or is touched or touches a player is how I was taught.

RookieDude · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 19, 2002, 10:18am

Thanks mick and Chuck,
You are correct Chuck...I was talking about the game clock.
Very good rule interpretations on a shot clock though, mick.
Thanks to both of you.

RD

Jurassic Referee · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 19, 2002, 10:24am

It's spelled out in R5-9-3 in the NFHS rule book.Clock starts on a missed FT when the ball touches or is touched by a player on the floor.

mick · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 19, 2002, 10:24am

Quote:

Originally posted by RookieDude
Thanks mick and Chuck,
You are correct Chuck...I was talking about the game clock.
Very good rule interpretations on a shot clock though, mick.
Thanks to both of you.

RD

RD,

Read this link from NFHS, it will clarify and prove Chuck's post.

http://www.nfhs.org/PDF/Basketball/B...0%20timers.pdf

mick

Jurassic Referee · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 19, 2002, 10:33am

Reference in the NCAA rule book is R5-11-3.Same language as Fed book.Clock starts when ball is touched by or touches a player on the court.

mick · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 19, 2002, 10:43am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Reference in the NCAA rule book is R5-11-3.Same language as Fed book.Clock starts when ball is touched by or touches a player on the court.

Good call, JR.
That horse was dead as soon before it hit the ground.

RookieDude · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 19, 2002, 09:01pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
It's spelled out in R5-9-3 in the NFHS rule book.Clock starts on a missed FT when the ball touches or is touched by a player on the floor.

You are exactly correct....BUT:

and here is where the confusion began,

Rule 5-9-3
...If a free throw is not successful and the ball is to remain live, the clock shall be started when the ball touches or is touched by a player on the court.
Rule 5-9-4
...If play is resumed by a throw-in, the clock shall be started when the ball touches, or is touched by, a player on the court after it is released by the thrower.

We need help from an English buff or someone that is well versed in proper punctuation...perhaps Rainmaker?
Why is there a comma after "touches" in 5-9-4 and NOT A COMMA after "touches" in 5-9-3?
Hmmmmm, is it because of the prepositional phrase beginning with "after", following "a player on the court" in 5-9-4?

...or if the rules makers wanted the clock to start when the missed FT hit the floor they would have written it:
"the clock shall be started when the ball touches, or is touched by a player on, the court." ????????

Whew...

RD

DanIvey · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 19, 2002, 09:05pm

Yeah, that's it!

DI

Marty Rogers · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 19, 2002, 10:50pm

Rule 5-9-3
...If a free throw is not successful and the ball is to remain live, the clock shall be started when the ball touches or is touched by a player on the court.

This means that after the free throw is missed, and play will be off the rebound, the clock will start as soon as a player touches the ball, or the ball touches a player (like bounces off his head, for example).

Rule 5-9-4
...If play is resumed by a throw-in, the clock shall be started when the ball touches, or is touched by, a player on the court after it is released by the thrower.

This means that after the last MADE free throw, the clock will not start until the thrower-in has released the ball to the court, AND a player on the court touches it, or is touched by the ball (the ball hits a player's knee, for example).

Both rules could be written with, or without, the COMMA.

If you have veteran refs thinking that the ball gets "chopped in" when a made free throw hits the floor, they need to attend the next clinic for new referee candidates. Why the heck do we put our arm up after the last made free throw?

RookieDude · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 20, 2002, 11:19am

....No, No, No,
I guess I explained it wrong. Not "chop" in the time after a made free throw...but after a "missed" free throw has hit the floor. That was what the discussion was about!
But thanks for the reply,

RD

Marty Rogers · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 20, 2002, 12:44pm

RookieDude:

Sorry I misunderstood your original question. Anyway, if you read my last post (and several others), it clearly states the rule that the ball has to be TOUCHED after a missed free throw (in order for the clock to start). If it hits the floor untouched, the clock will not be started until a player touches (or is touched) by it.

But, you knew it all along.
As I said before , some veterans need a "refresher course."