Clock Start on Free Throw?

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by RookieDude

You are exactly correct....BUT:

and here is where the confusion began,

Rule 5-9-3
...If a free throw is not successful and the ball is to remain live, the clock shall be started when the ball touches or is touched by a player on the court.
Rule 5-9-4
...If play is resumed by a throw-in, the clock shall be started when the ball touches, or is touched by, a player on the court after it is released by the thrower.

We need help from an English buff or someone that is well versed in proper punctuation...perhaps Rainmaker?
Why is there a comma after "touches" in 5-9-4 and NOT A COMMA after "touches" in 5-9-3?
Hmmmmm, is it because of the prepositional phrase beginning with "after", following "a player on the court" in 5-9-4?

...or if the rules makers wanted the clock to start when the missed FT hit the floor they would have written it:
"the clock shall be started when the ball touches, or is touched by a player on, the court." ????????

Whew...

RD

I rarely comment on the grammar on this board, reserving my show-off moments for the times when the mistake is amusing, or when it makes a difference in the meaning. In this case, Rookie Dude, the difference that you cite is simply a mistake by the writer. They should, indeed, have put a comma after "touched by" in the second case as they did in the first. At least, I am assuming from the various interpretations that have been handed down that that would most accurately represent their meaning. You are also correct that to put the comma after "..a player on" it would completely change the meaning as you outlined. YOUR grammar is much better than the Fed's and the confusion is well explained in your third post. If you want, I will send you an application to the I. M. Shirley Wright Fan Club. You would be welcome!

[Mark Dexter]

Speaking of going back to school for the veterans . . .

I'd like to see a few more officials take a look at when to start the clock on the jump ball. Seems to me like a lot of U's chop the clock when a team gains posession.

[cmonref]

yup, it needs to be touched by a player on the court for it to be live. otherwise, don't chop it in. that was a question on the test and was almost word for word from the rule book.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by cmonref
yup, it needs to be touched by a player on the court for it to be live. otherwise, don't chop it in. that was a question on the test and was almost word for word from the rule book.

Not quite.

The ball never becomes live when it's touched by a player on the court. There are only 3 ways of making a dead ball live (being touched on the court is not one of them).

$5.00 from the BktBallRef pool if you can find what those three ways of making the ball live are.

[RookieDude]

1. Jump ball
2. Throw-in
3. Free Throw
These three methods are the only way of getting a dead ball live.
.

RD



[Edited by RookieDude on Nov 21st, 2002 at 03:36 PM]

[cmonref]

wow!! you guys pick up on everything!! you are correct. My usage of "live" made the statement incorrect. it's good to know some officials on this forum have such an indepth knowlegde though, i can see how it might come in handy as the season progresses.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by cmonref
wow!! you guys pick up on everything!! you are correct. My usage of "live" made the statement incorrect. it's good to know some officials on this forum have such an indepth knowlegde though, i can see how it might come in handy as the season progresses.

Two places where something along these lines will come in handy:

(1) On the test.
(2) On a throw-in, the ball is live, so you can have a regular personal foul for contact (and not an intentional technical).

BTW, for cmon, at what point does the ball become live in each of the 3 situations?

[PAULK1]

"BTW, for cmon, at what point does the ball become live in each of the 3 situations?"

Jump ball=when the toss leaves the referees hands.

Free Throw=when the ball is at the disposal of the free thrower

Throw in=when the ball is at the disposal of the thrower.

Q: When does the clock start in all these situations?

A: when the timer starts it if the clock is functioning.