The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   9-1-3c (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/62753-9-1-3c.html)

rockyroad Fri Feb 18, 2011 05:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 731708)
It's a slang term referring to the hip hop group De La Soul, who influenced many other artists. When you "dela with" something (or someone), you try to influence them to do what you want without resorting to a rule-based punishment (in this example, ruling disconcertion).

:

Bob listens to hip hop???

And no one ever claimed Bob was infallible. Just that we should always listen to Bob. Even when he's wrong about something, he comes up with the best explanations for his answers!:p

NoFussRef Fri Feb 18, 2011 07:04pm

verbal and nonverbal disconcertion...
 
So the "twinkling fingers" from opponents on the lane, or the "foot stomping" from the defender outside the arc (who is more than just tapping his shoe into place) Etc.... = Disconcertion so you warn and award another free-throw, if it continues whack-ola. ?

Jurassic Referee Fri Feb 18, 2011 08:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoFussRef (Post 731734)
So the "twinkling fingers" from opponents on the lane, or the "foot stomping" from the defender outside the arc (who is more than just tapping his shoe into place) Etc.... = Disconcertion so you warn and award another free-throw, if it continues whack-ola. ?

Does the rule say you should warn? And what do you mean by "whack-ola"?

Do you know what the penalty for disconcertion is?

NoFussRef Fri Feb 18, 2011 08:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 731742)
Does the rule say you should warn? And what do you mean by "whack-ola"?

Do you know what the penalty for disconcertion is?


I am guessing there is no warning.
9-1-5 disconcertion = Technical Foul.

Just thinking in a rec game, say, 8th grade boys, I could see going with awarding another free throw and warning them any further disconcertion would result in a T.

But if I am getting your point, there is nothing giving me the authority to warn rather than "whack". "Whack-ola" = T-foul.

APG Fri Feb 18, 2011 08:46pm

The penalty for disconcertion is awarding another free throw if it is missed. It is ignored if the free throw is made. Could you issue a techincail foul for the specfic action? Sure, but there's no reason to go looking for a reason to whack.

If it's close to disconcertion, you can warn. If they disconcert, enforce.

NoFussRef Fri Feb 18, 2011 09:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 731752)
The penalty for disconcertion is awarding another free throw if it is missed. It is ignored if the free throw is made. Could you issue a techincail foul for the specfic action? Sure, but there's no reason to go looking for a reason to whack.

If it's close to disconcertion, you can warn. If they disconcert, enforce.

That is my take on this issue too.

As with a lane violation (defense) if basket is good, we just move on. Jurassic had me thinking I may not have a leg to stand on by awarding another free-throw for disconcerting the shooter. Made it sound like I either had to T up or ignore. I honestly don't have a current NFHS book, nor do I officiate Association games (yet).

I have in fact awarded another free-throw for disconcertion, but have never T'd a player for it. Do my best to talk em out of trouble. If they get a T from me they usually had it coming 10mins ago.

APG Fri Feb 18, 2011 09:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoFussRef (Post 731757)
That is my take on this issue too.

As with a lane violation (defense) if basket is good, we just move on. Jurassic had me thinking I may not have a leg to stand on by awarding another free-throw for disconcerting the shooter. Made it sound like I either had to T up or ignore. I honestly don't have a current NFHS book, nor do I officiate Association games (yet).

I have in fact awarded another free-throw for disconcertion, but have never T'd a player for it. Do my best to talk em out of trouble. If they get a T from me they usually had it coming 10mins ago.

The only way I'd give a T for disconcertion is if a player said something that in of itself would be unsportsmanlike, or if they kept repeating the violation one after another and thus was making a travesty of the game. This is similar to a team repeating free throw violations at the end of the game to ensure a made basket when the offense is trying to intentionally miss.

What JR was trying to say is if a player disconcerts, there is no warning and to call the violation (if applicable). Now if a player is close to disconcerting, or if the player makes the free throw, you can tell the play to knock it out.

Jurassic Referee Fri Feb 18, 2011 09:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 731762)
The only way I'd give a T for disconcertion is if a player said something that in of itself would be unsportsmanlike, or if they kept repeating the violation one after another and thus was making a travesty of the game. This is similar to a team repeating free throw violations at the end of the game to ensure a made basket when the offense is trying to intentionally miss.

What JR was trying to say is if a player disconcerts, there is no warning and to call the violation (if applicable). Now if a player is close to disconcerting, or if the player makes the free throw, you can tell the play to knock it out.

You're a nice guy, APG. Maybe you can take some time and explain why it's legal to throw the ball off your own backboard too. :D

APG Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 731765)
You're a nice guy, APG. Maybe you can take some time and explain why it's legal to throw the ball off your own backboard too. :D

Haha! I'm not even sure why I've spent so long on that front.

mbyron Sat Feb 19, 2011 09:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsl (Post 731698)
I see a typo. I thought Bob was infallible. :)

The slogan is "Always listen to Bob." Pronounce "dela" with a long A, and you're all set.

BillyMac Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:16pm

Never Considered This Before ...
 
Does a disconcertion violation require a delayed violation signal?

APG Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 731945)
Does a disconcertion violation require a delayed violation signal?

The signal is for a delayed lane violation. I wouldn't classify disconcertion as a lane violation but rather a free throw violation. I sometimes still use it though out of habit on this type of play.

bob jenkins Sat Feb 19, 2011 01:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 731954)
The signal is for a delayed lane violation.

Interesting. I hadn't noticed that description before. I think (my opinion) it's an "error" and should be used for all delayed FT violations.

APG Sat Feb 19, 2011 01:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 731962)
Interesting. I hadn't noticed that description before. I think (my opinion) it's an "error" and should be used for all delayed FT violations.

I could see that. NCAA-M and NCAA-W both have the signal as "delayed dead ball: withheld whistle."

BillyMac Sat Feb 19, 2011 01:51pm

Disconcertion Signal ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 731962)
I hadn't noticed that description before. I think (my opinion) it's an "error" and should be used for all delayed FT violations.

Both the NFHS manual, and the IAABO manual, list the single closed fist signal as a "Delay Lane Violation" signal. That's why I asked my initial question. I didn't realize that it may have been an error at the time. Now I believe it may be an error.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:17am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1