Questions

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Originally, I didn't finish reading question #2 before I made my answer - didn't realize Team A had taken the ball out and continued after scoring in Team B's basket . Given some of the responses though, I now have some additional questions.

BBREF seemed very confident that this was not correctable. At what time did it become not correctable - once the throw-in had been made? Can someone explain the timing of 2.10.3?

JR says the covering rule is 4.5.4. So do the points get credited to Team A? I don't think this is the proper rule unless both teams were confused and play proceded for an extended period of time with both teams scoring and committing fouls etc. In this particular case Team A recognised their error, apparently took the ball out after scoring in Team B's basket, and then proceded to the proper end of the court.

I'm thinking that 2.10 is applicable. The rule inadvertently set aside was the back court violation which resulted in an erroneous score. The ball became dead after the shot was made in the wrong basket. The ball became live (1st live ball after the error) when Team A proceded with their throw-in. I'm thinking this is still correctable at this point - remove points from Team B's total and administer a throw-in for Team B at the division line.

If Team A continues and scores, the ball becomes dead and live again with Team B's throw-in (2nd live ball since the error). Now it is too late to correct - Team B keeps their points, Team A keeps their points, and play continues as normal.

Somebody correct me where I am wrong.... BBRef, Tony, where is the error in my thought process?

Obviously, the best solution is never allow a correctable error situation to develop. Your justification is going to seem flimsy in the end. As for how late can your whistle be... for this situation I would say, philosophically, you are too late once Team A has administered their throw-in and is headed to the right end of the court. But you are going to have to do something if a coach starts howling at you for a correctable error.

In general, your whistle can be as late as...., until something else has happened. But I think it really depends a tremendous amount upon your personal clout. Some officials could likely be a couple seconds late on a call and still sell it well enough that everyone agrees the correct call was made; others couldn't sell a late call to their own grandmother.

Personally, I wouldn't care how late it was, if I could avoid a correctable error situation.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
BBREF seemed very confident that this was not correctable. At what time did it become not correctable - once the throw-in had been made? Can someone explain the timing of 2.10.3?

It never was correctible, because it's not a "rule set aside" it's a call not made. Big difference.

JR says the covering rule is 4.5.4. So do the points get credited to Team A?

No, team B. A live ball through B's basket is two points for B.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Explain the big difference.

[rockyroad]

A rule being set aside or screwed up would be if we called a multiple foul (God forbid) on B3 and B4 on A5's made basket, and then only awarded A5 one free throw - we just set aside a rule...(I know - we're never gonna call a mult. foul!!)

A call not being made is when A5 goes up, gets slapped by B4, still gets shot off and makes it, and we don't call anything...we're not going to wait until after B inbounds the ball, blow our whistle and say "Wait, we have a correctable error situation here. I should have called that foul."

The officials screwed up by not calling the over-and-back, and the player screwed up by scoring 2 points for their opponent...A gets the ball for the throw-in and we continue on our merry way...it isn't correctable...

[Nevadaref]

Tony,
I am going to give you an analogous situation to hopefully help clarify that this play is not a 2-10 correctable error.

A1 dribbles in for a try. He is fouled by B1 in the act of shooting. The covering official is screened out and cannot see the foul. The shot is missed. Team B rebounds the miss and goes the other end and scores. Team A takes time-out during this dead ball. Now since the coach of team A is screaming at the official who missed the foul, the officials come together for a conference. The covering official on the play asks his partner if he saw a foul. The partner responds, "Yes, but I did not want to call in your primary. I did not know you were screened out."

Now in this senario, we have a rule inadvertently set aside (foul rule) which results in the failure to award merited free throws, since it was a foul in the act of shooting.
Is it a 2-10 correctable error? We are still in the time frame to correct it.

Obviously, not. No one would consider this situation a correctable error.
Therefore, whether the officials fail to call a violation or a foul, it is not correctable. The distinction that you are looking for lies in the enforcement of the rules. If the official fails to call BI by the offense and the basket goes in, counting this score is not considered erroneous and it is not correctable. However, it the official calls the BI and counts the score anyway, then an error has been made in the ENFORCEMENT of a rule and the situation is correctable.
Simply put, correctable errors occur when the officials do or fail to do something in enforcing the penalty after a call is made, not after a call is not made.
Except for judging a 2 or a 3, but that is covered by the casebook 2.10.1F
Hopefully this helps clarify things.
My vote is that "by the book" it is too late to call the backcourt after the ball has gone through the basket. Now in real life, on the court, we may fudge this a bit and possibly wipe out the goal if the following throw-in has not been completed.
I just thought of the recent rule 10.1.8
Read this casebook play and then remember that before it was written this basket was not considered correctable. Once the throw-in preceding it was touched in bounds, "by the book" we had to let play continue and then let the following cheap basket count. Hence this casebook play.
The point is that, by rule, we couldn't cancel this basket if we caught the mistake before the following throw-in was completed. It was too late once the goal was scored. But many of us wiped it out anyway!

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Ah Ha!

A correctable error results from improper enforcement of a penalty. Very good thank-you. And this is why Situation #2 is not a correctable error.

[Schmidt MJ]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
Ah Ha!

A correctable error results from improper enforcement of a penalty. Very good thank-you. And this is why Situation #2 is not a correctable error.

Well, not necessarily, but if it helps you see the light, okay. On most correctable errors for free throws, it is probably the result of improper enforcement of a penalty. But for erroneously counting or canceling a score, there wouldn't necessarily be an improper penalty enforcement.

[RookieDude]

Here is how I remember if it is "Correctable or Not"...
Rule 2-10
Art. 1...Officials may correct an error if a rule is inadvertently set aside and results in:
a. Failure to award a merited free throw.
b. Awarding an unmerited free throw.
c. Permitting a wrong player to attempt a free throw.
d. Attempting a free throw at the wrong basket.
e. Erroneously counting or canceling a score.

Notice there are only 5 correctable error situations and 4 of them have to do with free throws.
Just get the "recognized by an official during the first dead ball after the clock has properly started" or "before the second live ball."
The big thing to remember...4 of the 5 have to do with FTs.

RD