Would you access a 'T'?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

It's not my logic or my local interpretation. It is the actual rule from the rule book. See, I quoted it above.

Most games that follow another game are scheduled to start a certain number of minutes after the conclusion of the previous game (typically 25 or 30 minutes later here).

But the rule is not based on the time on the clock but the scheduled starting time.

I think "scheduled" means "when the scoreboard clock gets to zero."

Otherwise, if a team bus is late, and the game is pushed back, we'd get a T on the visitors beore they even arrived.

In the OP -- find out why the time is off, when the teams wer notified, etc. And then decide -- it might also depend on why the book needs to be changed (and this isn't mentioned in the OP)

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And Rut's point is the way most places interpret this rule is slightly different than the way you read it; for the reason he stated. When I'm on the court, I am not looking for a wall clock that has (in my experience) about a 40% chance of being correct. I do not carry my phone with me, so I have no way of verifying the time.

This rule was written with the assumption that the countdown is to the scheduled starting time. The rule doesn't say "originally scheduled time." If that clock is counting down to the start, then that's your clock for this purpose. The schedule has been moved up, period.

That said, I've got no T here. I'm not giving the AD the opportunity to make a bush-league move like this to try to get a cheap T against the visitors.

I disagree. We all use the clock because this rule eliminated this bush-league crap. You can't change the start time to force a T on the visitors because the turn in time is based off the scheduled start time. If they meant 10 minutes before the start of the game, they wouldn't have said "scheduled." The rule is worded the way it is to particularly cut this crap off at the knees.

If you believe the rule means you have to go by the clock, you have no choice but to issue the T here. I think you'll agree the rule is not intended to allow the home team to have the ability to always start the game with a T on the visitors.

What happens under your interpretation if I put 9:59 on the clock and just don't start it until under 10? For that matter, there is no requirement for the warm-up period to be timed at all. No, while the time on the clock is a useful tool, it is not actually determinative for this rule.

[chymechowder]

If you're going to access a T in boston, this might help.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

If they meant 10 minutes before the start of the game, they wouldn't have said "scheduled."

The problem is that you don't know when the game is going to actually start until it does. So, there's no way of knowing in advance when 10 minutes before the "actual" start time is. That's why the rule says "scheduled" start time.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I disagree. We all use the clock because this rule eliminated this bush-league crap. You can't change the start time to force a T on the visitors because the turn in time is based off the scheduled start time. If they meant 10 minutes before the start of the game, they wouldn't have said "scheduled." The rule is worded the way it is to particularly cut this crap off at the knees.

What exactly does "scheduled" mean? It can't possibly mean the "original" time noted in some obscure computer file. Schedules change all the time.
If the clock says 15:00, that's the schedule. Otherwise, as Bob noted, a team who shows up late is going to have a T. Or, conversely, if the game gets moved up a couple hours for any reason, then neither team would be bound by the rule for any real purpose. If the game is moved back for any reason, then you'll start with a double T and each team gets one step closer to the bonus.

Originally Posted by Eastshire

If you believe the rule means you have to go by the clock, you have no choice but to issue the T here. I think you'll agree the rule is not intended to allow the home team to have the ability to always start the game with a T on the visitors.

I absolutely have a choice. I'm not giving the home team an advantage not intented by the rules here. The scheduled time may have been moved up, but if I got so little notice as an official that I get on the court with 8:00 left rather than 15:00, I'm going to assume the coach got little notice as well and I'm going to give him a couple of minutes to adjust.

Originally Posted by Eastshire

What happens under your interpretation if I put 9:59 on the clock and just don't start it until under 10? For that matter, there is no requirement for the warm-up period to be timed at all. No, while the time on the clock is a useful tool, it is not actually determinative for this rule.

No big deal. I'd check with the table to see why it's not running (maybe they've moved the game back). If we're still on schedule, i'll check the book like normal. Again, my only accurate frame of reference on the court is that clock. Do you wear a watch on the court?

And the lack of requirement for the warm-up clock is precisely why the rule was written this way. And, as Bob noted, in case something screwy happens and the game has to be held off. If it was written to say "before the game starts" then you may have to retract some Ts.

1. You call a T with 9:00 left on the pregame clock for this.
2. With 1:00 on the pregame clock, the lights go out and it takes 15:00 to get started. The book was ready more than 10:00 before the game started, but not more than 10:00 before the scheduled start.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by NoFussRef

Beat me to it.

Although I would have said "I do KNOW how to assess one though." As opposed to "I do now how..."

Yeah I kind of screwed that up. It was a typo though, as I just left the "k" off on accident. I do KNOW how to spell that word.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Yeah I kind of screwed that up. It was a typo though, as I just left the "k" off on accident. I do KNOW how to spell that word.

Coulda been worse. You coulda typed 'Kow tow'.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Coulda been worse. You coulda typed 'Kow tow'.

Hey buddy, take it to the figure skating forum.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The problem is that you don't know when the game is going to actually start until it does. So, there's no way of knowing in advance when 10 minutes before the "actual" start time is. That's why the rule says "scheduled" start time.

+1

It's the second game of regional playoffs played at the same site. The start time of that game usually depends on when the first game gets done.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Hey buddy, take it to the figure skating forum.

You're thinking of a Salchow (often pronounced 'sow cow'). Kow tow is Chinese.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mbyron

You're thinking of a Salchow (often pronounced 'sow cow'). Kow tow is Chinese.

Does it come with egg rolls?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Does it come with egg rolls?

Racist.

[chymechowder]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Does it come with egg rolls?

it comes with a (Scallion) Pancake Spin

[rockyroad]

So, Eastshire, if I am following your line of thinking correctly here...doubleheader. Game #2 is "scheduled" to start at 8:00. First game goes into triple overtime (Padgett's fault). Teams for second game take the court to being their warmups at 8:20, and both coaches submit their rosters/starters at that time. You are going to assess both of them T's because they should have had their rosters/starters turned in by 7:50 - 10 min. prior to the scheduled start time???

Really?

Seriously??

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Hey buddy, take it to the figure skating forum.

Is that near the shot clock forum?