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-   -   Thoughts? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/62607-thoughts.html)

tref Wed Feb 16, 2011 02:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 730816)
I can promise you this, it won't happen again.
The morning after, this ^ is all that matters. Rather it happen at this level than in a college game.

JRutledge Wed Feb 16, 2011 02:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tref (Post 730826)
The morning after, this ^ is all that matters. Rather it happen at this level than in a college game.
Why would that matter at all?

Peace

tref Wed Feb 16, 2011 02:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 730836)
Why would that matter at all?

Peace
He said it wont happen again & THAT is all that really matters...

If you're talking about my college statement, where would you rather show a lack of communication? In a HS game or in an NCAA game?

JRutledge Wed Feb 16, 2011 02:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tref (Post 730840)
If you're talking about my college statement, where would you rather show a lack of communication? In a HS game or in an NCAA game?
Neither. But then again I am not seeing how either changes my opinion. And this is a minor issue in my opinion that I doubt much would be made of it by anyone outside of the officials that were on the game. They did not violate a rule or change the outcome of the game. All I see is a coach overracting to something that is minor.

Peace

tref Wed Feb 16, 2011 02:49pm
I dont believe fullor30 is tripping on the coach. It seems to me that he is more upset for not communicating with his crew effectively... but I'll let him speak for himself.

What doesnt seem like much to you, obviously meant alot to him as he posted the sitch.
I think we should be more critical of ourselves than others are.

TheOracle Wed Feb 16, 2011 02:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 730757)
Didn't handle a situation very well last night in a state tournament game and would like opinions(please sir may I have another)

I call foul and report, we are shooting two I turn to face basket, players are not getting lined up, fouling team is now starting to huddle near bench behind me(time frame about 2-3 seconds) I turn around and table then tells me five fouls. I tell coach who already knew, and is busy 'coaching' I turn and signal to partners five fouls and tell table to start clock. First horn blows and the R for game starts walking to table telling coach lets go, coach who is not happy to begin with is barking "I get 20 seconds" I tell partner I've got it, they continue the dialogue and now second horn goes off and coach is in my ear that he didn't have time to set up play as other official was 'barking' at him. We administer free throws and coach is still percolating over scenario.

IMO in retrospect, table not buzzing distracted me somewhat. I should have communicated better to partners for fifth foul as they both seemed in the dark which would have prevented R coming to table which was unnecessary. New player had aready reported so we were good there. I"m thinking I could have walked to R and told him, relax, I've got it, although I did repeat I've got it,five fouls. This would have bought coach the few seconds he was looking for. Bottom line, he felt rushed, maybe rightfully so.

It was at critical time in a close game. That said, if coach would have ignored other official( as coaches tend to do when we're yelling let's go, etc.)
he would have had his extra few seconds. To my eye it was sloppy.
I agree with most saying this is not a really big deal. What I have not seen:

You should "hand off" all foul outs to one of your partners. As soon as you know it is 5, you should let a non-calling official notify the player, the coach, and start the clock. It removes all risk of the coach chipping at you for calling the foul, and you having to be near the table for that. Doing this may have helped your situation a little bit.

Adam Wed Feb 16, 2011 03:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOracle (Post 730848)
I agree with most saying this is not a really big deal. What I have not seen:

You should "hand off" all foul outs to one of your partners. As soon as you know it is 5, you should let a non-calling official notify the player, the coach, and start the clock. It removes all risk of the coach chipping at you for calling the foul, and you having to be near the table for that. Doing this may have helped your situation a little bit.
Coach wasn't chipping about the foul. He was using a 20 second timeout that he's not entitled to use.

And your "remedy" is used in some areas, and no in others. Unless he's in an area that enforces this, then you don't know what he "should" do.

tref Wed Feb 16, 2011 03:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOracle (Post 730848)
As soon as you know it is 5, you should let a non-calling official notify the player, the coach, and start the clock.
Coach, timer, then player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 730853)
And your "remedy" is used in some areas, and no in others. Unless he's in an area that enforces this, then you don't know what he "should" do.
True, in my ballgames we handle our own business. Coaches dont scare us, we have tools for handling unsporting coaches.

fullor30 Wed Feb 16, 2011 03:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tref (Post 730826)
The morning after, this ^ is all that matters. Rather it happen at this level than in a college game.
I don't do college other than a few juco games.

I don't want it to happen at any level.

JRutledge Wed Feb 16, 2011 03:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tref (Post 730844)
I dont believe fullor30 is tripping on the coach. It seems to me that he is more upset for not communicating with his crew effectively... but I'll let him speak for himself.

What doesnt seem like much to you, obviously meant alot to him as he posted the sitch.
I think we should be more critical of ourselves than others are.
You still have not answered my question. What does this have to do with what level this took place?

Again, it is about perspective. Out of all the things we can worry about, this is not top on most official's list. Yes, he might have posted it, but like a lot of other officials that post things or ask for advice only to find out that this is just a blip on the screen of their career. I doubt many people even noticed the situation the way he did, which is the point of my comments. And since it was a playoff game, it probably had little significance in the bigger picture. It will not be the last time he or any of us have a little miscommunication in a game. I had one last night, but no one is talking about that. I realize we all want to be perfect, but we will not be. And it appears that it had nothing to do with the game but the fact the coach wanted to overreact to something (which they tend to do a great deal of the time).

I mentor enough officials where they call me asking about a situation thinking their career is over when something happens, only to find that it was not a big deal in the end. This sounds like that kind of situation when it had nothing to do with a call or a rule. No coach was T'd or ejected from the game as a result. This is why I am trying to see what it matters in the end. OK, now communicate better next time. We call can do that every game we work. You live and learn.

Peace

tref Wed Feb 16, 2011 03:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 730885)
You still have not answered my question. What does this have to do with what level this took place?
My badd. If I have to make a mistake or have a breakdown in communication, I'd rather in happen on the smallest stage I work as opposed to the biggest stage I work. That's all.

fullor30 Wed Feb 16, 2011 03:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tref (Post 730844)
I dont believe fullor30 is tripping on the coach. It seems to me that he is more upset for not communicating with his crew effectively... but I'll let him speak for himself.

What doesnt seem like much to you, obviously meant alot to him as he posted the sitch.
I think we should be more critical of ourselves than others are.

I know exactly what Jeff is conveying, and he's right, it's not that big of a deal, It's just another lesson to file away for next time. I like discussing situations, eliminating little things, as this was, to fine tune your game to avoid the possibility of something festering. I see plenty of guys who can 'call' a good game, look terrific out there, but a little speed bump comes up, and the game gets rocky

JRutledge Wed Feb 16, 2011 03:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tref (Post 730894)
My badd. If I have to make a mistake or have a breakdown in communication, I'd rather in happen on the smallest stage I work as opposed to the biggest stage I work. That's all.
Well actually D1 is the highest profile I would worry about and I do not even know if this specific situation would even make the broadcast. To be real, there are more people that pay attention to high school than just about any small college level. At least that is the case around here.

Peace

TheOracle Wed Feb 16, 2011 08:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 730853)
Coach wasn't chipping about the foul. He was using a 20 second timeout that he's not entitled to use.

And your "remedy" is used in some areas, and no in others. Unless he's in an area that enforces this, then you don't know what he "should" do.
I suggested a good practice that would be prudent for all officials in every foul out situation. It should be used in all areas at all times, in my opinion. :D

TheOracle Wed Feb 16, 2011 08:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 730895)
I know exactly what Jeff is conveying, and he's right, it's not that big of a deal, It's just another lesson to file away for next time. I like discussing situations, eliminating little things, as this was, to fine tune your game to avoid the possibility of something festering. I see plenty of guys who can 'call' a good game, look terrific out there, but a little speed bump comes up, and the game gets rocky
You are 100% correct and pretty introspective to grasp that. That is exactly why handing foul out situations off is smart. It eliminates virtually all risk of that particular speed bump.


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