Good hoop? - Page 2

BigJoe · #16 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 14, 2002, 12:49pm

I wish I would have kept my mouth shut on this one! I hate to think I caused anyone brain cramps. I just wanted to point out the new rule change, so I changed horses midstream. In the original post, an opponant of the shooter fouls. In my post, I wanted to point out that if a teammate of the shooter fouls, continuous motion does not apply.

On an aside, is there anyone out there in the Myrtle Beach, SC area who would know if there is going to be any mechanics clinics next week? I am going on vacation next week and will miss ours here in MN. I hate to go into the first game cold. Thanks for your help.

Sleeper · #17 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 14, 2002, 01:04pm

I think I may be confused, so let me try to clarify this for my own brain:

A1 shooting--B2 fouls A2=A2 shot counts+A ball or 1-1

A1 shooting--A2 fouls B2=A2 shot counts only if released+B gets ball or 1-1.

Is this right?

PublicBJ · #18 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 14, 2002, 01:42pm

A1 shooting--B2 fouls A2 = A's shot counts + A ball or 1-1 or 2 (depending on bonus situation)

A1 shooting--A2 fouls B2 = A's shot counts only if released + B gets ball or 1-1 or 2 (depending on bonus situation)

mick · #19 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 14, 2002, 01:44pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Sleeper
I think I may be confused, so let me try to clarify this for my own brain:

A1 shooting--B2 fouls A2=A2 shot counts+A ball or 1-1

A1 shooting--A2 fouls B2=A2 shot counts only if released+B gets ball or 1-1.

Is this right?

Yer good.

BigJoe · #20 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 14, 2002, 01:45pm

Sleeper, you got it right. Usually, the official off ball will make the foul call. If you are on the ball you will have to determine if the ball has been released before the whistle. Rarely, will this situation be called by the on ball official. Most of the continuous motion calls on ball involve fouls on the shooter. This is why it is so important to work on your off ball coverage. Consult the officials manual for court coverage. Even if you are working with a rookie, stay with the off ball coverage because it doesn't do anyone any good to have one official calling on ball violations and fouls from across the floor. It makes you both look bad. If you aren't sure on this rule study the continuous motion definition rule 4-11.

"Keep 'em straight up!"

BktBallRef · #21 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 14, 2002, 02:55pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Schmidt MJ

Quote:

Originally posted by BigJoe
One thing to keep in mind, if A-1 fouls B-1 while A-2 is shooting, but hasn't released the shot, the basket doesn't count. This is according to NFHS rules.

"Keep 'em straight up!"

I agree with this 100%. At our rules meeting last night the state director was adamant that the shot does NOT count if the shooter had not released the ball before his teammate was fouled. Continuous motion does not apply unless the shooter is the player fouled.

MJ, you need to re-read BigJoe's post. He's talking about A2 fouling B1, not B1 fouling A2.

If A1 is in the act of shooting and B1 fouls A2, then the basket will most definitely count if it goes. If you're state interpreter told you something different, he is wrong.

6.7 SITUATION C:
Under what circumstances does the ball remain live when a foul occurs just prior to the ball being in flight during a try or tap?
Ruling: The ball would ordinarily become dead at once, but it remains live if the foul is by the defense, and this foul occurs after A1 has started the try or tap for goal and time does not expire before the ball is in flight. The foul by the defense may be either personal or technical and the exception to the rule applies to field goal tries and taps and free-throw tries. (4-11; 4-40-1)

BigJoe, this isn't a new rule. It's been in the books for years.

BigJoe · #22 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 14, 2002, 05:51pm

bktballref:

What I am pointing out is the clarification in rule 4-11-3 which is a new rule. In the past, a foul by a teammate of the shooter wouldn't cancel the shot if the shooter has started the try. This was definitely an advantage for the offense and is why this was put in.

Jurassic Referee · #23 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 14, 2002, 06:54pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BigJoe
bktballref:

What I am pointing out is the clarification in rule 4-11-3 which is a new rule. In the past, a foul by a teammate of the shooter wouldn't cancel the shot if the shooter has started the try. This was definitely an advantage for the offense and is why this was put in.

Hardly a new rule,Big Joe.Been around for a long,long time.Check out R6-7-7 in last year's rule book.This sitch isn't one of the exceptions listed.Also check out #13 of the "Basketball Rules Fundamentals' at the back of any old book.It says "a live ball foul by the offense causes the ball to become dead immediately,unless the ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal".

ChuckElias · #24 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 14, 2002, 06:56pm

Joe, 4-11-3 is more of a clarification than a change. Notice in 4-11-1 it says (and always has, as far as I know) that continuous motion has no significance unless a foul is committed by the defense. The logical implication is that if a foul is committed by a teammate of the shooter, continuous motion would not apply and the ball would become dead immediately. Therefore, if the shot had not left the shooter's hand, no basket. There's been no change in the ruling, just a slight clarification.

Chuck

BktBallRef · #25 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 14, 2002, 10:28pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BigJoe
bktballref:

What I am pointing out is the clarification in rule 4-11-3 which is a new rule. In the past, a foul by a teammate of the shooter wouldn't cancel the shot if the shooter has started the try.

Sure it would. The shot would only count if the ball was ijn flight. It's always been that way. 4-11-3 simply clarifies that point. It's not a rule change.

BigJoe · #26 (**permalink**) Fri Nov 15, 2002, 12:06am

I stand corrected!

Schmidt MJ · #27 (**permalink**) Fri Nov 15, 2002, 10:28am

Now that I'm back at my computer let me apologize. Yes, I somehow inverted the original situation and changed who was fouling who. I was probably misunderstanding the state interpreter the other night also. Anyway, I do agree that if the defense fouls A2, then A1's shot counts if he was in the act. If A2 fouls B2, then A1's shot must be in the air to count. It's amazing how much clearer some things are the next morning.

mick · #28 (**permalink**) Fri Nov 15, 2002, 10:31am

Quote:

Originally posted by Schmidt MJ
Now that I'm back at my computer let me apologize. Yes, I somehow inverted the original situation and changed who was fouling who. I was probably misunderstanding the state interpreter the other night also. Anyway, I do agree that if the defense fouls A2, then A1's shot counts if he was in the act. If A2 fouls B2, then A1's shot must be in the air to count. It's amazing how much clearer some things are the next morning.

Good call, Schimdt MJ!

I can kick more calls than you can.