Pre-game Techs

[Nevadaref]

I worked a game at a preseason tournament this past week with a very senior official from our association. This was a 2 man crew and he, being the most senior, was the Referee and I was the Umpire.
My partner and I have worked together before and he respects me, so his pregame was rather lax. He only said to me, "Call your game and have fun," then went over to the table before the game and talked to the scorer/timer.
Now we are lined up for the jump ball with me in front of the table when the coach of white yells, "Hey wait! They have the wrong starters."
I turn around and glance at the score book. I can quickly tell two things: 1. the coach is right, blue clearly does have a couple of incorrect starters.
2. White has NO starters designated in the book at all! But does have their team lineup in.

I now went to center court and asked my partner if he checked the book prior to the game. He said no. He just chatted with the table people.
Ok, now we have a problem. I told him that I'd handle it. I went back to the white team's coach and said, "Coach, here's the deal, you're right about their starters, but you don't even have your starters marked in the book. So rather call Ts, what do say we just play ball?"
The coach accepted this and away we went.

Now, I know that what I did was not correct by the rules.
The question is What is correct?
Should each team receive a T?
Are they considered simultaneous, in which case we wouldn't shoot any free throws and would still have a jump ball to start?
Or do we say that white got the first T for failing to designate five starters at the 10 minute mark, and then blue gets a T for starting the wrong players and we had it brought to our attention before the ball became live, so it is penalized? This would mean that we do shoot 2 for blue, then 2 for white, and then give the ball to white and the arrow to blue(if nothing else goofy happens).
I just don't know if we can go back and penalize for an infraction at the 10 minute mark now, when my partner failed to check the book at that time.

What does everybody think?

[RookieDude]

I'm thinking if this level of ball is anything over Freshman girls...then your partner was WAY to "lax".
Apparently your partner wasn't taking the game as serious as the Coach that was yelling for a "T" because of the wrong starters.
Answer to your question:
Simultaneous techs...1 foul for each team toward the Bonus...Not an indirect or a direct "T" for either Coach...Start the game with a Jump Ball.

(I would have handled it about the way you did...Play ball!)

RD

[ChuckElias]

The Rookie is right on all counts.

[Mark Dexter]

Let's not forget - this is for a pre-season tournament.

Heck, even during the regular season I'd be tempted to quietly say to the scorer "See who's out there? Mark them down in the book."

[rainmaker]

Who cares about the rules?

I'm still laughing about the coach that's screaming the loudest, being the one who is the most wrong. Classic!

[refjef40]

Good stuff!Nev. did great by getting a tournament game started without a "T" and Mark's advice to quietly let the scorer handle it was right on.Also to Julie isn't that always the way a coach spends more time watching us and the other team than his or her's on business.Does everyone agree with me and I assume Nev. that anything short of a serious infraction we do whatever we can to avoid a "T" to start the game?To me if it starts that way boy is going to be a tough night.

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Let's not forget - this is for a pre-season tournament.

Heck, even during the regular season I'd be tempted to quietly say to the scorer "See who's out there? Mark them down in the book."

For levels below HS varsity, I think you can get away with this. In my varsity games, I ask our scorekeeper, at the 10:00 mark, who my opponents' starters are. It might shape how we want to attack them (how many ball-handlers are in their lineup? how many big people?) and will definitely affect how we matchup if we are playing man-to-man! I use that 10 minutes to consider my matchups and inform my starters who they are guarding and give them one or two tips about their tendencies ("Liz, you are guarding #14, don't forget she's left-handed and won't shoot from outside the three-point line.").

There are reasons for these rules, and at the levels where who wins and loses matters (my job might be on the line!) you need to enforce them.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Now we are lined up for the jump ball with me in front of the table when the coach of white yells, "Hey wait! They have the wrong starters."
I turn around and glance at the score book. I can quickly tell two things: 1. the coach is right, blue clearly does have a couple of incorrect starters.
2. White has NO starters designated in the book at all! But does have their team lineup in.

...
I went back to the white team's coach and said, "Coach, here's the deal, you're right about their starters, but you don't even have your starters marked in the book. So rather call Ts, what do say we just play ball?"
The coach accepted this and away we went.

Now, I know that what I did was not correct by the rules.
The question is What is correct?
Should each team receive a T?
Are they considered simultaneous, in which case we wouldn't shoot any free throws and would still have a jump ball to start?
Or do we say that white got the first T for failing to designate five starters at the 10 minute mark, and then blue gets a T for starting the wrong players and we had it brought to our attention before the ball became live, so it is penalized? This would mean that we do shoot 2 for blue, then 2 for white, and then give the ball to white and the arrow to blue(if nothing else goofy happens).
I just don't know if we can go back and penalize for an infraction at the 10 minute mark now, when my partner failed to check the book at that time.

What does everybody think?

Actually, blue only gets a T if blue insists on using the new starters. If blue reverts to the starters in the book (they have that option), no penalty. White, however, doesn't get a choice. No starters designated after 10 minutes equals a T. That'll teach white's coach to speak up trying to get the other team a T.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by A Pennsylvania Coach


For levels below HS varsity, I think you can get away with this. In my varsity games, I ask our scorekeeper, at the 10:00 mark, who my opponents' starters are. It might shape how we want to attack them (how many ball-handlers are in their lineup? how many big people?) and will definitely affect how we matchup if we are playing man-to-man! I use that 10 minutes to consider my matchups and inform my starters who they are guarding and give them one or two tips about their tendencies ("Liz, you are guarding #14, don't forget she's left-handed and won't shoot from outside the three-point line.").

There are reasons for these rules, and at the levels where who wins and loses matters (my job might be on the line!) you need to enforce them.

If this is a preseason tournament, then I might not be inclined to call a T here either. It depends on the seriousness of this game or this tournament. Not much different than a summer game where none of these rules are enforced to the letter. If they were, every game would start with T. So coach I understand that you want the rules to be enforced, but you also be realistic as to what the environment is. Now if this game counts, everything should be enforced properly. If not, life will go on.

Peace