Apples and Oranges

[ChuckElias]

Ok, I know there is no fair way to compare the two. Having said that. . .

I watched a bit of a HS volleyball match last night after my HS interpretation meeting for basketball. From my admittedly ignorant, untrained point of view, officiating volleyball looks only slightly more difficult than withdrawing a game fee from an ATM.

I know there are a few guys here who also do volleyball. Could you just tell me what, if anything, makes volleyball officiating challenging or interesting? Please understand, this is an honest question. In the match I saw, there was one guy on a ladder and one on the floor. And all they did was blow the whistle to start play, then indicate in or out.

Chuck

[Dan_ref]

Maybe the challenge is in staying on the ladder when
you fall asleep?

[Jurassic Referee]

Volleyball is the "Elephant's Graveyard" for old basketball officials!

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Volleyball is the "Elephant's Graveyard" for old basketball officials!

So you have plenty of experience, JR?

Actually, the two officials I saw were relatively young. I would say no more than 35.

Chuck

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

So you have plenty of experience, JR?

Actually,that is pretty much the description of how I referee now!Stand in one spot and watch the ball go back and forth.If anybody says anything,I tell 'em that I'm training to be a volleyball ref.

[Brian Watson]

Mentally, Vball is a 1000 times harder that hoops.

I am more tired after a long a vball match than a bball game.

The R1 (up official) is in charge of the whole game and has sole authority on all judgement calls. Basically, every hit needs to be judged legal. You also have to memorize the lineups to ensure the player are in rotation before every serve.


Some make it look easy, but it really isn't.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Brian Watson
Mentally, Vball is a 1000 times harder that hoops.

Again, Brian, I have no volleyball training, but I find that almost impossible to believe. The number of judgments required on every basketball play surely must be greater than those of whether the player hit the ball legally.

Basically, every hit needs to be judged legal.

What does that entail, Brian? I know that you can't "carry" the ball. (Is the correct term "lift"?) And I think that if you hit it with 2 hands they have to touch the ball at the same time. Is that right? Is that very difficult to judge? Again, honest question. I've never done it, so I just don't know.

You also have to memorize the lineups to ensure the player are in rotation before every serve.

Now this part really does sound difficult. Are you not allowed to keep a line-up card with you to check at the serve? And even tho it sounds like a big pain to have it memorized, there's not much real judgment involved in that, is there?

I appreciate your perspective. I hope I don't seem too insulting. I don't mean to be.

Chuck

[zebraman]

One of our association's basketball officials also officiates volleyball. He tells us that it is so easy that he feels as if he is stealing money. He said that the only challenge he has is staying awake during time-outs.

Z

[Andy]

OK....Here I come to aid Brian in defending volleyball officials.

The main difference that I find between VB and BB is that volleyball has no physical aspect to it. In BB you need to move yourself physically to get the best postition to see each play and rule on it. In VB, there is no physical movement involved, but the mental aspect is huge.

Here is something else to consider, Chuck. Depending on the level of competition that you are watching in VB, officiating can vary greatly. I have done Jr. Hi level and some HS games where about all I did was signal for the start of play and call in and out. When the teams are doing little more than bumping the ball back and forth across the net, VB is a very easy game to officiate. When the teams are running an offense and trying to attack the ball aggressively, the difficulty in officiating goes up dramatically. When the game is being played at it's highest levels and with skilled players, it is very exciting to watch. Check out VB in the next Olympics or if you happen to see a college match on a sports channel as you are surfing and see if you think that would be any more difficult to officiate than the match you saw.

I will also say that determining if a ball was contacted illegally, or lifted, is more difficult than it seems. I have been trying to think of an analogy to a play in BB, but can't really come up with one.

Because there is no physical aspect to VB, I plan on doing that sport until I fall over and die. I personally think that it is easier than BB, but only because of the lack of physical movement.

[Brian Watson]

The players are getting better and better and faster every year. Each hit at a high level of play is a challenge.

Some setters are so close to double hitting each ball, you cannot fall asleep. I know it sounds wierd that it is mentally draining, but give it a shot, you'll understand.

As far a line ups, only the R2 (down official) keeps a card so that they can keep track of subs. When you are up, it is too hard to do that and, you cannot take your eyes off the ball to check and see if someone is a backrow hitter, you just need to know.

And if someone says working volleyball is like stealing money, they probably are. Each sport has officials that do the minimum and cash out. If he finds HS so easy and relaxing, he needs to be working D1 or international ball. They need the help.

[devdog69]

Really no reason to 'defend volleyball officials'. As Chuck said, he is asking not attacking and he has a legitimate question. My second year in volleyball and it is much easier, though there are some difficult aspects of the job. Keeping track of the rotation and back row attackers is a big part of that, as is judging the hits that may look ugly but be legal or look smooth but be illegal. Beleive it or not I have much more discomfort in my legs and back after officiating volleyball than I do basketball, all the standing seems to bother me more than running. What I have found in my area is that, for whatever reason, the volleyball officials are paid better than any other sport. So for me that means far fewer $30 JV football games and more $60-80 volleyball matches.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Andy
When the game is being played at it's highest levels and with skilled players, it is very exciting to watch.

I probably should have said this in the original post (b/c who's going to believe me now?), but I completely agree with your comment above, Andy. I really enjoy watching UCLA and Stanford (men or women, it doesn't matter) play volleyball on FoxSportsNet. The speed of the game and the agility of the players is very exciting.

Believe it or not, I may consider working volleyball next season, since I like to officiate but I don't really want the physical exertion of lacrosse.

Thanks for your insights, Andy.

Chuck

[rainmaker]

Around here, volleyball pays a little better than bball. The rules are less complicated, but as Brian said, the judgement required does get much more tricky at the higher levels. It's much more difficult in vball to be consistent. And you must get the angle from where you stand. Not moving around is a disadvantage. When you work "up" on the ladder, it's great fun to watch. "Down" is unbelievably, mind-numbingly tedious.

Ill do more vball next year. It's a nice change and the coaches don't yell as much, and you can toss them sooner.

[Tim Roden]

I have not been on the stand for volleyball but I have been a line judge. That was fun. Of course as others say, the physical aspects of volleyball are not that hard. Saying that it is one of the few sports a truely handicapped person can officiate and for that I am glad we have the sport. The other part is it is mentally demanding. The whistles are so quick it is unbelievable. Basketball is almost as fast but we are told to hold the whistle. In Volleyball that whistle comes immediately upon a dead ball. There is only microseconds between the ball hitting the floor, net or post and the whistle. And a signal comes thereafter or they look at the line judge for a signal. The other hard part is how an official can know who is where in the formation. With formations changing all the time, the official can look at a sheet of paper and line everyone up in proper place. I've seen them do it upon request. In BBall, we couldn't tell you who was in the game much less what position.

[Z REF]

Chuck...the ATM comment was pretty funny.

I officiate and play both sports. I have seen folks who don't play volleyball try and officiate it, and most of them struggle to both be competent and stay awake. Like all sports, there are alot of nuances in volleyball of which the average "family" ball type of person has no clue.

For instance, there are at least 10 simple offense and defense sets that coaches use to game plan and execute. Understanding each of these basic strategies goes along way into being a competent official. Where is the attack coming from, is it a legal attack from a legal player, was the ball played legally, what happened at the net and how is the defense reacting.

All of these things happen very quickly when two athletic teams are playing. If you are watching or calling middle school, it could be a challenge to stay awake, as the skill levels are limited and the coaches are often little more than baby sitters.

Having said all the above, basketball is still my passion, and I will tend to call any level basketball game before calling a volleyball match. Given your obvious passion toward basketball, I'm sure you will approach volleyball with the same degree of professionalism, and it will be a positive experience for you.