What are "we" telling coaches?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Judtech

I will go with that. But I also have heard OFFICIALS say they have never heard of it either!! Honestly, you should see some of the looks the Mrs gets when she asks "Why did you think she was not in LGP?"

Those officials are just wondering what you're wife is talking about, since no coach knows what legal guarding position is.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Those officials are just wondering what you're wife is talking about, since no coach knows what legal guarding position is.

Well played, well played. I can neither confirm nor deny where she got the idea to use that type of verbiage.

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Got where? I think that the phrase "got there" implies that the defender can't move. Keep in mind that once he gets "there", he's allowed to move in several directions: backward, diagonally backward and to the left, diagonally backward and to the right, left, and right. And we can add up to that list if you want to add a third dimension.

No, it means the defender beat the offensive player to the spot, cut him off, won the play, and earned the call.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

No, it means the defender beat the offensive player to the spot, cut him off, won the play, and earned the call.

Maybe to those of us who know the rule, but to those who don't, it means he isn't supposed to move. When an official who knows the rule says "over the back," he means push. When he says "reach," he generally means illegal use of the hands. When a coach who doesn't understand the rules hears those terms, he thinks something else entirely.

[NoFussRef]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Got where? I think that the phrase "got there" implies that the defender can't move. Keep in mind that once he gets "there", he's allowed to move in several directions: backward, diagonally backward and to the left, diagonally backward and to the right, left, and right. And we can add up to that list if you want to add a third dimension.

you forgot upwards.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by NoFussRef

You forgot upwards.

Look again.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Maybe to those of us who know the rule, but to those who don't, it means he isn't supposed to move. When an official who knows the rule says "over the back," he means push. When he says "reach," he generally means illegal use of the hands. When a coach who doesn't understand the rules hears those terms, he thinks something else entirely.

Eh, I'm OK with that phraseology myself. Maybe I'm getting soft.

[SAK]

Watching televised basketball is a great aid to help pick up what advantage/disadvantage looks like. However, there is a difference between watching the TV and listening to the commentators. Even the best commentators have very limited knowledge of the rules. And sometimes a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, especially when those with a little knowledge try to pass themselves off as experts. Don't get me wrong, I like watching games that Dick Vitale is working but he knows very little about basketball rules. Too may are listening to what he as to say as if it comes out of the rule books. Coaches need to realize that in a high school game the officials have undergone comprehensive rules studies and have likely been to several basketball camps to improve on their craft. Stop asking for the "over the back" and the "reach" calls as these are simply not fouls. Also realize that a foul requires contact however, not all contact is a foul.

Sorry, just had to vent.

Also, where did the notion come from that when shooting a technical foul all players (non shooting) need to be behind the division line?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SAK

Also, where did the notion come from that when shooting a technical foul all players (non shooting) need to be behind the division line?

Who knows? I had a game Saturday with 3 technicals and a flagrant and all the players dutifully went behind the division line. Who am I to stop them?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Who knows? I had a game Saturday with 3 technicals and a flagrant and all the players dutifully went behind the division line. Who am I to stop them?

Right, why would you stop them? They're legal back there.

[SAK]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Right, why would you stop them? They're legal back there.

I had a game where a technical foul was called (I think that my partner called it as he went opposite table and I administered the free throws) and he told all the players to go behind the mid court line. He was the R on the game, not that R or U1 matters at that point, but I wasn't going to stop him from having them go behind half court. Just wondering where that idea come from.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by SAK

Watching televised basketball is a great aid to help pick up what advantage/disadvantage looks like. However, there is a difference between watching the TV and listening to the commentators. Even the best commentators have very limited knowledge of the rules. And sometimes a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, especially when those with a little knowledge try to pass themselves off as experts. Don't get me wrong, I like watching games that Dick Vitale is working but he knows very little about basketball rules. Too may are listening to what he as to say as if it comes out of the rule books. Coaches need to realize that in a high school game the officials have undergone comprehensive rules studies and have likely been to several basketball camps to improve on their craft. Stop asking for the "over the back" and the "reach" calls as these are simply not fouls. Also realize that a foul requires contact however, not all contact is a foul.

Sorry, just had to vent.

Also, where did the notion come from that when shooting a technical foul all players (non shooting) need to be behind the division line?

Unfortunately the bolded part is not true for the majority of high school officials, at least in this area, and in many others I suspect. You would be shocked at the number of rules that partners try to enforce or not enforce that are plain wrong.

So far this year I've been told that:

- Other nine players have to be behind the division line during technical foul FTs (Almost every official I know believes this to be true....even saw D1 officials enforce it this weekend).

- Only the players on the court can shoot technical foul FTs. Bench players are not eligible.

- That once the book has been checked at the 10-minute mark, it is final and scorekeeper error (Copying down the wrong number from a roster) doesn't exist and a technical must be given.

I'm sure I'll think of more.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Who knows? I had a game Saturday with 3 technicals and a flagrant and all the players dutifully went behind the division line. Who am I to stop them?

Originally Posted by mbyron

Right, why would you stop them? They're legal back there.

Originally Posted by SAK

I had a game where a technical foul was called (I think that my partner called it as he went opposite table and I administered the free throws) and he told all the players to go behind the mid court line. He was the R on the game, not that R or U1 matters at that point, but I wasn't going to stop him from having them go behind half court. Just wondering where that idea come from.

Not only have I had partners put all the other players behind the division line, I heard a veteran partner tell a rookie official that the team whose bench is in the backcourt should not be allowed to talk to their coach near the sideline since the team with the frontcourt bench can't cross the division line to talk to their coach.

[SAK]

Originally Posted by zm1283

So far this year I've been told that:

- Other nine players have to be behind the division line during technical foul FTs (Almost every official I know believes this to be true....even saw D1 officials enforce it this weekend).

JW, do you remember what D1 game this was? That is unreal.....don't even know what to say.

[rockyroad]

Doing the scorebook for my sons' HS team the last two years, I can not even begin to count the number of times I have heard officials tell a coach "He wasn't set" when explaining why they called a block. I cringe every time I hear it.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by SAK

JW, do you remember what D1 game this was? That is unreal.....don't even know what to say.

Yes, I was at the game, but I don't want to say which game it was. It was actually during the FTs for an intentional foul. Most of the players went into the backcourt on their own, but a few stragglers were standing near the center circle in the frontcourt. The official that was table side walked toward them and gave them the "scoot back" motion with his arm and they all moved behind the division line.