The Official Forum - Can I give my partner a T??? (long)

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)

- Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)

- - Can I give my partner a T??? (long) (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/61834-can-i-give-my-partner-t-long.html)

First I don't recall "bragging" about mentoring. I have said, just like others here, that I enjoy helping young officials. The difference in this guy and EVERY other new official I have worked with is that he acted as if he was the veteran with nothing to learn and nothing that needed changing. I have been doing this 20 years and still realize I can learn and improve.

BTW my assigner called me today about him. Seems the game administrator witnessed the confrontation and was not happy with neither the coach or my partner and called the assigner. The assignedr said this was not the first complaint he had received about the guy this year and would be reviewing whether he uses him in the future. He said the only reason he got the game Saturday was he was the only one close and available with such short notice

He also got onto me for not issuing the coach a T. I told him under the circumstances I felt it would have made the sitaution worse. He said he would have HTBT to know for sure but felt he would have issued one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobbyinTN (Post 727217)

The reason I don't support this first year official is because the official wasn't being run over by the coach until hestarted raising his voice. The HC asked, in a mild manner, about the 10 second count. If my partner would have said something like "well coach I had it in my head but I'll try to make it visual from now on" I believe there would have been no problem. Instead he immediately got defensive and said "I have it in my head - that should be good enough for you, you take care of your players and I will take care of calling the game". The confrontation wasn't due to the HC asking the question but the official yelling at the coach. Had the HC jumped all over him first I would have stepped in and issued a T without hesitation; however, but that isn't how it came down. Maybe I did take too long with the coach but I couldn't get my partner to shut up long enough for us to get away from the table. I asked them both to calm down and let's get to our locker rooms but my partner was going to get in the last word if it took all of half time. The only way I could get them seperated was to warn the coach that further confrontation from him was going to result in a T - he finally walked away - and my partner was still raising his voice at him as he walked off.

Maybe I am being too hard on him but when this is going on at the scorer's table with fans behind watching it unfold it is just a little much. I think folks expect coaches to be emotional but not officials. And the thing that really got under my skin is was that in the locker room he told me he had been a coach for 20 years and he was not going to let a coach question his calls. I told him that he better get use to it because I have never called a game where a coach didn't question something - it is partof the game. He said "well I will give them a T then". Sorry, but I think if he wants to officiate he needs to go to wreck ball where that kind of behavior from a official might be more acceptable.

I love to mentor young officials but we all know that not everyone who wants to be an official needs to be one. Maybe this guy has hope but I can guarantee you that had a supervisor been there during this altercation, I would have probably been calling the rest of the game by myself. I seriously doubt he would have been able to return to the game after half time.

Did you hear the entire exchange, everything the coach said? All game long?

Also, if you find out this behavior is S.O.P. for this young official, then I'd agree with you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 727256)

Did you hear the entire exchange, everything the coach said? All game long?

I only heard the exchange at the table, I did not hear anything the coach said to him prior to that. I don't know if there were comments or not - I know I didn't hear a peep out of the coach directed at me during the first two periods.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobbyinTN (Post 727253)

He also got onto me for not issuing the coach a T. I told him under the circumstances I felt it would have made the sitaution worse. He said he would have HTBT to know for sure but felt he would have issued one.

I've said this before and I'll say it again; whether a T would make a situation better or worse shouldn't come into consideration.

Simple: Did the coach earn it or not?

95 times out of 100, it will make the situation better if it was an earned T. It doesn't mean the T shouldn't have been given the other 5, though. And just because the situation got better on its own does not mean the right decision was made by not giving a T, either.

As for whether you were "bragging," that's for you to decide; but you've mentioned it multiple times along with how long you've been working. I've got nothing against that per se, and just because it didn't work with this guy doesn't mean anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobbyinTN (Post 727257)

And you wouldn't have. I'm not saying it happened, I obviously don't know. But there have been lots of cases where the coach will work one official where the others can't hear it.

As has been pointed out, this guy needs to be trained on how to deal with coaches. If it's been tried already, then perhaps he does need to be discarded. But there are ramifications far beyond this one official for throwing a partner under the bus.

Guess what this coach is going to do the next time he senses a less experienced official working with a seasoned mentor.

I guess I don't see where "I understand your frustration, let me handle this" is throwing my partner under the bus. He kept asking me "do you understand why I am upset?" Not in a loud tone or demanding tone but obviously a frustrated tone

Had I said "you know coach you are right, you deserve better officiating than you are getting from this guy but he is a rookie so cut him some slack and he is an idiot for yelling at you, so I will make sure he never officiates again" - that would be throwing him under the bus.

Obviously most here think that makes me a bad guy but so be it

No, it doesn't make you a bad guy.

"I understand your frustration" = "You're right but let me handle it." He may well have been right, but you telling him that is not the right thing to do, IMO.

And for the record, saying that to a coach within earshot of an already emotional partner is likely to shut down discussion in the locker room. Right or not, it's human nature to get defensive at that point.

I stand by my earlier remedy:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 726572)

"Coach, you've said your piece. It's time to move on." That's his warning; after that he gets the T.

It's neutral, it acknowledges the coach has a problem without giving credence or overly backing a partner who has just screwed up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 727272)

But what if you said "Coach, you have said your peace?" Would that change things.:D
However, this is a good way to handle it. I think we can all agree that there is no need for an official to raise their voice at a coach. It also goes back to the "3 team" theory - Home Team, Away Team and OUR team. Obviously, the official needed some correction in his methods and handling that at halftime is a great way to do it. Sort of that whole "Blessed are the peace makers" thing!:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judtech (Post 727274)

But what if you said "Coach, you have said your peace?" Would that change things.:D

Most coaches wouldn't know the difference; especially with my particular accent. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 727247)

Just like first year officials need to learn mechanics, rules and judgment, they need to learn how to talk to coaches, and when to raise their voice (and when not to).

Just because he was wrong is no reason to throw him under the bus.

And it's up to us to try and teach the inexperienced officials if we want to keep them around. They will make mistakes; that's part of their learning process. Every one of us went through that back in the day. But it's a little much imo when you get it from both sides publically when you make a mistake. It changes a learning experience into a confrontation where the new official has no one in his corner trying to help him out.