Can I give my partner a T??? (long)
 

Sorry for the long post but it is needed to set the scenario.

I know it seems as if I have been down on some partners lately but today's situation takes the prize.

Two whistle, MS tournament, championship game. I get notification from Arbiter about three hours prior to game time that I had a new U1 - someone I didn't know. No problem as I enjoy working with new people at times - especially if it is a lower level game such as MS. I get there probably a hour early because I wanted to see the game prior to ours. My partner arrives about 15 minutes prior to game time so I have to do a rush pre-game. Found out he is a first year official and got the call at lunch to cover this game due to my original partner having to leave town unexpectedly. I try to go over as much as I can in a 5 minute period and then we head to the floor. I check the books, etc and off we are to tip off.

Well his lack of experience showed quickly. As play was in the front court, he would stand about 10 feet behind the division line. While standing back there he called a double dribble in my area from way back there. He missed several traveling violations, etc but I racked it up to inexperience. At the first TO we had I asked him to close down while we were in the FC and he got better at it after that. I also noticed he wasn't doing a visual count while the team was bringing the ball down the court. I mentioned it to him and he did a little better.

Well if this was the only issue, I would have been okay but....... Near the end of the second period, he again has no visual count and the offense is being pressed heavily and having a hard time getting it past mid court. It seems that they took well over 10 seconds but I wasn't going to call it from my L position. Needless to say the visiting team's coach was pretty upset and they clearly had the home team trapped. At the end of the period the coach said something to my partner about not calling 10 seconds and not having a visual count. I overheard it and the HC was nice about it but my partner says (in a very defensive and loud tone - " I counted it in my head and that should be good enough for you. You worry about your team and I will take care of the calls." Needless to say this flew all over the coach. I immediately step in and ask both of them to calm down and lets get off the floor for half time. Well the HC continues and so does my partner. I am thinking "great I may have to give the coach a T but he is being provoked by my partner!!!" The HC kept on and I finally said "coach, I will handle this but you are going to have to be calm. I heard your complaint and we will address it so please don't make me have to give you a T. I understand your frustration but we can't be raising our voice at each other". He said he had no problem with me but did my partner. I told him "coach, consider this your warning - another word and I will have to give you a T" He turned and went to the locker room. I probably should have issued the T but I was trying to defuse the situation that my partner has started.

We get to our locker room and I asked my partner why he raised his voice to the coach. He responded that he accused me of not having the BC count. I told him that didn't justify his response. I told him that it puts us in an embarrassing situation by him yelling at a coach. He was very defensive and said he wasn't go to stand there and take it. I told him that if he really wants to officiate ball he is going to have to get some thick skin and let things go - especially when the HC asked him in a calm tone initially.

So should I have T'd the coach anyway? I wanted to give them both a T but obviously that isn't possible ;)

I hope your partner sends you the bill for the tire tracks on the his uniform.

"Coach, you've said your piece. It's time to move on." That's his warning; after that he gets the T.

Sounds like you handle it fine. How did the 2nd half go with the coach?

Yea I probably should just said that but with them both yelling at each other I found myself in a situation I had never experienced in 20 years of calling ball - my partner yelling at a coach. I thought I had witnessed it all but obviously not :rolleyes:

Went okay - no real issues. He did question a block I called but no in a nasty way so I let it go.

Get in, get done, get out... or however that goes followed by a call to the assigner. Most assigners expect new people will have some bugs to work out, but a new guy with anger management issues is probably something your assigner would like to know about.

I agree. I was "okay" with his mistakes calling ball - I made tons of them my first year so I can accept that. I can't accept his yelling at a coach - provoked or not. I will be calling the assigner.

Yeah, sometimes the new guys get fed up. Most likely, he's been taking some abuse all season, finally realized he doesn't have to take it, but took the wrong road to not taking it.

He should have simply responded, just as calmly, by saying he got to 9 or whatever. Chances are his count is slow, no big deal.

"I don't have to stand there and take it" is different than, "I get to yell back at him."

The difference takes experience.

Had the rook done a visible count in the first place, this whole thing could have been avoided. I may have questioned that, asking who taught him that "counting in your head" is acceptable for fives and tens.

I worked with two different rooks this season. I believe you have to get a feel with how receptive they are to take advice. If they don't want it, gravy's right, just get the game done as best as you can. If they're receptive, then take advantage of the opportunity to clue them in, and possibly nip some habits in the bud.

I know that many officials on this board feel that a technical foul is warranted in this case -- regardless how wrong officials are. BUT, officials need to understand that coaches work very hard all week long to their teams ready to play. Middle school coaches still have the right to expect an official will know how to be an OFFICIAL.

As officials, we are REQUIRED to use a visible count. To not use one -- and then ARGUE in an offensive tone -- is going to allow the coach a leash usually reserved for one running with a dog in a large field!

Get your partner away from the coach as quickly and as far as you can.

And officials still have the right to expect a COACH will know how to set an example for good sportsmanship, especially at the MS level. Doesn't it work both ways?

I'm with Snaqs, Robby. As soon as you said that, you threw your partner under the bus. His credibility just went down the ol' crapper for the rest of the night, as well as probably in any future games with that particular coach. You were completely right in trying to defuse the situation. Obviously your very inexperienced partner needed your help. But there is a way to help... and making any comment at all about your partner's officiating ability isn't a help.

JMO.

Agree in principle but I think his credibility with the coach was gone as soon as he yelled at him.

Yeah, wouldn't you have to HAVE credibility to LOSE credibility?:confused:

Rookies ???
 

Correct, to a point. I don't know what things are like in your little section of Rome, but here, in my little corner of Connecticut, most middle school games get rookie officials (granted, not usually for championship games).

Around here, rookie officials have passed both a written rules test, and a mechanics floor exam. Passed, not necessarily with an A+. Also, by the first week of February, some of our rookie officials, depending on their weekday afternoon availability, may have had only a few games, if any, under their belts.

Yes, a middle school coach should expect a rookie official to visually count ten seconds, but just because they should know it, doesn't mean that they're going to do it. They've got to learn somewhere. Rookies sure as hell aren't going to learn their trade working high school varsity games. So where else to better "screw up" than in a middle school game, "competitive", "varsity", or otherwise.

Doesn't matter. Now he's got added ammo to take to the assigner/supervisor. "Even the other official said he understood my frustration." Your job, as his partner, is to help him maintain some credibility.

Might not be fair, but it is what it is. There's a huge possibility that your game would have gone into the tank the 2nd half after the coach realizes you don't trust your partner.

"Robby, you said you were going to deal with him at half time!"

Billy,
In Central Ohio, the Catholic League MS games are almost ALL done by HS varsity officials that also do Catholic League HS games. The "rookies" are assigned 4th - 6th grade games -- frequently with varsity HS partners.

In the largest MS conference in town, MOST of the games are done by Varsity HS officials. Once again, MOST of the "rookies" do the 4th - 6th grade recreational league games.

JR, while I agree that coaches should indeed be showing good sportsmanship, in our MS leagues, we expect the officials to have some idea as to what they are doing. Getting STUPID AND LOUD is going to cause many a MS coach to react in a frustrated manner.

Snaqs,
In MOST cases, an official may be able to provide "cover" for his/her partner. At the same time, in this instance, I don't think it would have made a damn bit of difference what Robby would have said.

While most coaches don't know many of the nuances (back court rules, legal guarding position, etc.), MOST KNOW that counts are to be visible. Coaches sense a "rookie" from 84 feet away.

Until Mr. Hothead Harry learns to keep his emotions in check, his assigner should KNOW about his lack of mechanics knowledge and oncourt emotions. Officials expect coaches to "act the right way" (we don't say "hey, this guy is just 'learning', let's give him some leeway"). It is just as reasonable to expect the officials to do the same.

For the record, the Catholic League MS coaches are ALL volunteers. Many of the public school coaches are paid little. On the other hand, the officials get paid $30 - $40 for doing these MS games. Once again, a basic rules and mechanics knowledge is expected.

First off, I am not going to defend this partner to our assigner/supervisor. IMHO, he has no business on the floor until his anger problem is resolved. Granted that isn't my call; however, if asked I would recommend that he not be assigned to any games.

While my OP was long, it only told part of the story. When I made the statement about "I understand your frustration" it was after he kept telling me that he only asked a question and my partner yelled at him. He told me that he only asked a question and my partner started raising his voice. At that point in time, saving my partner was way out of my hands - and to be honest with you was low on my priority list. I was extremely pissed at my partner - I wanted to jump all over him for yelling at a coach but I refrained because I did not want to make him look any worse than he already did. This is one of those HTBT moments and having never run into this situation in 20 years of officiating, I wasn't exactly prepared for this. I have had to cover partners who made bad calls, etc but have never had to try to control a "verbal fight" between a coach and an official. They don't teach us that in camp. ;)

It is easy to sit back in my chair tonight and say I should have done this or should have done that but I am going to tell you that when it happens in real time (and you're shocked by your partner's behavior), it doesn't always come out the way it should.

I know one thing - I will never call another game with him. He is on my unofficial blocked officials list with my assigner.

Do not give me that crap about how hard you worked at the MS level. If you want to get further respect, then stop coaching middle school. Because the absolute newest or not so good officials are the ones that work those games mostly. You get what you pay for and sometimes what you ask for.

Peace

Got it. Getting STUPID and LOUD is OK for MS coaches.

+1

It seems that more concern was shown towards the coach's feelings than a very obviously inexperienced first year official. A very obviously inexperienced official that in all liklihood ain't gonna be around for a second year now either.

And I am okay with that - but he won't be around because I threw him under the bus, he won't be around because he can't handle his anger. THere is no way in the world am I taking the blame for it - we don't need officials like him on the court. Had it been rookie mistakes it would be different but this was unexcusable. If he never calls another game I am fine with that.

You can make me out the bad guy all you won't (not sure what your issue is with me but .................) but I refuse to take up for an official who acts like that. If all he had done was failed to do the count I would have gladly defended him; however, when he starts verbally attacking the coach, he is on his own. At that point in time all I am going to do is try to get the situation underhand before it escalates further.

I'm not saying you should have backed him up at all. You should have taken him to task in the locker room. But on the court, you should not have told the coach that you understood his frustration and that you'd take care of it at half time.

And if you're going to judge whether a 1st year official should continue based on his demeanor when he's getting run over by a coach and absolutely no support from his experience partner who likes to brag about how he mentors officials in middle school games, then keep on keeping on and watch your attrition rates rise.

I don't think you're a "bad guy." I just think you reacted poorly to an emotional situation. Your conversation with the coach was way too long, IMO.

The reason I don't support this first year official is because the official wasn't being run over by the coach until hestarted raising his voice. The HC asked, in a mild manner, about the 10 second count. If my partner would have said something like "well coach I had it in my head but I'll try to make it visual from now on" I believe there would have been no problem. Instead he immediately got defensive and said "I have it in my head - that should be good enough for you, you take care of your players and I will take care of calling the game". The confrontation wasn't due to the HC asking the question but the official yelling at the coach. Had the HC jumped all over him first I would have stepped in and issued a T without hesitation; however, but that isn't how it came down. Maybe I did take too long with the coach but I couldn't get my partner to shut up long enough for us to get away from the table. I asked them both to calm down and let's get to our locker rooms but my partner was going to get in the last word if it took all of half time. The only way I could get them seperated was to warn the coach that further confrontation from him was going to result in a T - he finally walked away - and my partner was still raising his voice at him as he walked off.

Maybe I am being too hard on him but when this is going on at the scorer's table with fans behind watching it unfold it is just a little much. I think folks expect coaches to be emotional but not officials. And the thing that really got under my skin is was that in the locker room he told me he had been a coach for 20 years and he was not going to let a coach question his calls. I told him that he better get use to it because I have never called a game where a coach didn't question something - it is partof the game. He said "well I will give them a T then". Sorry, but I think if he wants to officiate he needs to go to wreck ball where that kind of behavior from a official might be more acceptable.

I love to mentor young officials but we all know that not everyone who wants to be an official needs to be one. Maybe this guy has hope but I can guarantee you that had a supervisor been there during this altercation, I would have probably been calling the rest of the game by myself. I seriously doubt he would have been able to return to the game after half time.

At what point was the official being "run over" by the coach? Based on robby's accounting of the scenario I don't see that.

So, Robby, in your book this guy is all done. Washed up. Game over. Put him away. Screw him. Etc., etc...

Nothing like taking the easy way out.

Of course, following up with this horrible partner would just be too much to ask of any sane, decent, outstanding official like yourself. Got any idea what was going on with the guy? Had he just been told his wife was diagnosed with cancer? Maybe his oldest son was in a car accident that afternoon? Did you even bother to freaking ask him??

Nope - you're just done with him and will do whatever it takes to make sure he doesn't ever work with you again. And probably tell all your friends to do the same.

Yes sir...that's the best way to handle this whole mess. Screw him - he "deserves it".

It was very obvious by talking to him at half time and after the game that he had no intentions of changing and in a round about way he basically told me he didn't care to hear any constructive advice - that he knows the game and isn't going to take anything off anyone. He still thought he did nothing wrong and felt the coach had it coming. Does this sound like a guy who wants mentoring? Does this sound like a guy who is looking to improve or one who things that since he is wearing a stripped shirt that he can act however he wants on the floor?

Now if I see him at camp this year (which when I mentioned it to him, he told me he sees no need to go to BTW) and he is showing a desire to improve, I will be glad to work with him but based on his comments Saturday, I don't think that will happen.

There are too many good young upcoming officials who have a desire to be the best official they can be to worry about a middle aged, hot headed ,ex- coach who thinks he has the right to say whatever he wants to a coach and sees nothing wrong with it. I have seen some young officials come into the game with little experience, who make tons of mistakes but are willing to listen and imporve and turned into outstanding officials.

And if you are having a bad day, you don't take it out on the coaches. It is unacceptable for a coach to yell at an official and even more unacceptable for an official to yell at a coach. In 20 years of officiating I had never witnessed this type of behavior from an official until Saturday

Sorry, maybe I look like a bad guy but it is what it is.

Just like first year officials need to learn mechanics, rules and judgment, they need to learn how to talk to coaches, and when to raise their voice (and when not to).

Just because he was wrong is no reason to throw him under the bus.

Sorry, you were talking to him when emotions were still high. Like I said, unless you know more of the story, you don't really have a right to judge his ability as an official. One bad game doesn't make him a bad official.

Maybe:
1. He'd been taking sh1t all year and finally had enough. Yeah, the coach's comments were made cordially, from what you could hear, but I'm guessing you hadn't heard every comment the coach made to him all half.
2. Maybe his wife told him she wanted a divorce.
3. Maybe his dad was just diagnosed with xxxxx.

If he's adamant to you about it at half time, write him off for the game and GIGDGO, but don't throw him under the bus.

And if you do, don't go bragging on here about how great a mentor you are. Maybe you're not as cut out for it as you think you are.

Maybe you are, and this is just a bad game and we shouldn't write you off. But then again, that's my whole point, isn't it?

First I don't recall "bragging" about mentoring. I have said, just like others here, that I enjoy helping young officials. The difference in this guy and EVERY other new official I have worked with is that he acted as if he was the veteran with nothing to learn and nothing that needed changing. I have been doing this 20 years and still realize I can learn and improve.

BTW my assigner called me today about him. Seems the game administrator witnessed the confrontation and was not happy with neither the coach or my partner and called the assigner. The assignedr said this was not the first complaint he had received about the guy this year and would be reviewing whether he uses him in the future. He said the only reason he got the game Saturday was he was the only one close and available with such short notice

He also got onto me for not issuing the coach a T. I told him under the circumstances I felt it would have made the sitaution worse. He said he would have HTBT to know for sure but felt he would have issued one.

Did you hear the entire exchange, everything the coach said? All game long?

Also, if you find out this behavior is S.O.P. for this young official, then I'd agree with you.

I only heard the exchange at the table, I did not hear anything the coach said to him prior to that. I don't know if there were comments or not - I know I didn't hear a peep out of the coach directed at me during the first two periods.

I've said this before and I'll say it again; whether a T would make a situation better or worse shouldn't come into consideration.

Simple: Did the coach earn it or not?

95 times out of 100, it will make the situation better if it was an earned T. It doesn't mean the T shouldn't have been given the other 5, though. And just because the situation got better on its own does not mean the right decision was made by not giving a T, either.

As for whether you were "bragging," that's for you to decide; but you've mentioned it multiple times along with how long you've been working. I've got nothing against that per se, and just because it didn't work with this guy doesn't mean anything.

And you wouldn't have. I'm not saying it happened, I obviously don't know. But there have been lots of cases where the coach will work one official where the others can't hear it.

As has been pointed out, this guy needs to be trained on how to deal with coaches. If it's been tried already, then perhaps he does need to be discarded. But there are ramifications far beyond this one official for throwing a partner under the bus.

Guess what this coach is going to do the next time he senses a less experienced official working with a seasoned mentor.

I guess I don't see where "I understand your frustration, let me handle this" is throwing my partner under the bus. He kept asking me "do you understand why I am upset?" Not in a loud tone or demanding tone but obviously a frustrated tone

Had I said "you know coach you are right, you deserve better officiating than you are getting from this guy but he is a rookie so cut him some slack and he is an idiot for yelling at you, so I will make sure he never officiates again" - that would be throwing him under the bus.

Obviously most here think that makes me a bad guy but so be it

No, it doesn't make you a bad guy.

"I understand your frustration" = "You're right but let me handle it." He may well have been right, but you telling him that is not the right thing to do, IMO.

And for the record, saying that to a coach within earshot of an already emotional partner is likely to shut down discussion in the locker room. Right or not, it's human nature to get defensive at that point.

I stand by my earlier remedy:

It's neutral, it acknowledges the coach has a problem without giving credence or overly backing a partner who has just screwed up.

But what if you said "Coach, you have said your peace?" Would that change things.:D
However, this is a good way to handle it. I think we can all agree that there is no need for an official to raise their voice at a coach. It also goes back to the "3 team" theory - Home Team, Away Team and OUR team. Obviously, the official needed some correction in his methods and handling that at halftime is a great way to do it. Sort of that whole "Blessed are the peace makers" thing!:)

Most coaches wouldn't know the difference; especially with my particular accent. ;)

And it's up to us to try and teach the inexperienced officials if we want to keep them around. They will make mistakes; that's part of their learning process. Every one of us went through that back in the day. But it's a little much imo when you get it from both sides publically when you make a mistake. It changes a learning experience into a confrontation where the new official has no one in his corner trying to help him out.