Should I Have Run Him?

YooperRef · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 01, 2011, 12:41pm

I had a JVG game last night where the following occurred in the second half. I am lead administering the throw-in. Visiting team is inbounding the ball on the endline near their basket. V1 inbounds the ball, steps on the court then steps back OOB and runs 15-20 ft. along the endline (OOB the entire time) and re-enters the court on the opposite side of the lane. Surprised me a little but I whistle the violation for unauthorized leaving the court. V coach runs down to the endline line where I am, grabs my arm, and asks what call I've got. I explain that leaving the court in the manner his player did is a violation. His response, "The hell it is" (loud enough for players and probably fans to hear). I T'd him up. Report the T to the table and let him know he's lost the use of coaching box.

I'm thinking that I should have ejected him for grabbing my arm (not roughly) or possibly issued a T for coming on to the court and a T for his response. It all happened pretty fast. Any thoughts?

Adam · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 01, 2011, 12:46pm

Wow. My first thought was a flagrant for grabbing your arm, but I'm hesitating after you noted it wasn't a rough grab. Frankly, all three things deserve a T, but they all happened so quick I'd just go with one probably.

One thing I'd do differently, I would have likely had a T about the time he was grabbing my arm. Anything he says after that risks another one.

TimTaylor · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 01, 2011, 01:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Wow. My first thought was a flagrant for grabbing your arm, but I'm hesitating after you noted it wasn't a rough grab. Frankly, all three things deserve a T, but they all happened so quick I'd just go with one probably.

One thing I'd do differently, I would have likely had a T about the time he was grabbing my arm. Anything he says after that risks another one.

agree....

Judtech · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 01, 2011, 09:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Wow. My first thought was a flagrant for grabbing your arm, but I'm hesitating after you noted it wasn't a rough grab. Frankly, all three things deserve a T, but they all happened so quick I'd just go with one probably.

One thing I'd do differently, I would have likely had a T about the time he was grabbing my arm. Anything he says after that risks another one.

IMO, this seems like it all happened VERY fast. I am envisioning the coach running out onto the floor and grabbing the arm in a very short order. That would be the first T, even though in hind sight and with things slowed down it is two different incidents. If at that point he does not return to his box area, especially after the 'gentle persuasion', throw the second one. But that is just me.

APG · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 01, 2011, 10:06pm

If a coach comes out on the court as far as I'm envisioning on the play, grabs my arm, and complains about a call, then like our friend Ron Garretson would say, "WHACK, you're gone!"

YooperRef · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 01, 2011, 10:08pm

It did happen very fast. When I need to kill some time (aka "working") I go over different scenarios in my head to try to prepare for odd situations. This one never crossed my mind. I've been officiating about 4 years now and watched quite a bit of basketball and I have never seen this in my neck of the woods. I've seen coaches complain and get T'd but never come that far on the court. Caught me by surprise I guess.

TimTaylor · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 02, 2011, 01:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by YooperRef

It did happen very fast. When I need to kill some time (aka "working") I go over different scenarios in my head to try to prepare for odd situations. This one never crossed my mind. I've been officiating about 4 years now and watched quite a bit of basketball and I have never seen this in my neck of the woods. I've seen coaches complain and get T'd but never come that far on the court. Caught me by surprise I guess.

As others have said, easy flagrant T - yaa, you betcha!

Adam · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 02, 2011, 08:18am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judtech

IMO, this seems like it all happened VERY fast. I am envisioning the coach running out onto the floor and grabbing the arm in a very short order. That would be the first T, even though in hind sight and with things slowed down it is two different incidents. If at that point he does not return to his box area, especially after the 'gentle persuasion', throw the second one. But that is just me.

I agree with me.

Judtech · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 02, 2011, 08:30am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I agree with me.

I knew I'd say that.

RobbyinTN · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 01, 2011, 12:48pm

I would have T'd him the second he grabbed my arm which probably would have stopped the comment but if he still said something , I would have T'd him again. If any coach or player touches me in any form or fashion other than a friendly jesture they are T'd immediately.

tref · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 01, 2011, 12:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by YooperRef

I had a JVG game last night where the following occurred in the second half. I am lead administering the throw-in. Visiting team is inbounding the ball on the endline near their basket. V1 inbounds the ball, steps on the court then steps back OOB and runs 15-20 ft. along the endline (OOB the entire time) and re-enters the court on the opposite side of the lane. Surprised me a little but I whistle the violation for unauthorized leaving the court. V coach runs down to the endline line where I am, grabs my arm, and asks what call I've got. I explain that leaving the court in the manner his player did is a violation. His response, "The hell it is" (loud enough for players and probably fans to hear). I T'd him up. Report the T to the table and let him know he's lost the use of coaching box.

I'm thinking that I should have ejected him for grabbing my arm (not roughly) or possibly issued a T for coming on to the court and a T for his response. It all happened pretty fast. Any thoughts?

I would've whacked him for leaving the box & "touching" me, period, no matter how hard or soft.

No explaination after the T... maybe, "Get a rulebook coach, like Ragu... its in there!"

Adam · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 01, 2011, 12:51pm

After that, I'd probably tell him to go dust off the rule book in his office and read through rule 9. Then I'd have to issue an apology later.

Loudwhistle · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 01, 2011, 12:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by YooperRef

I had a JVG game last night where the following occurred in the second half. I am lead administering the throw-in. Visiting team is inbounding the ball on the endline near their basket. V1 inbounds the ball, steps on the court then steps back OOB and runs 15-20 ft. along the endline (OOB the entire time) and re-enters the court on the opposite side of the lane. Surprised me a little but I whistle the violation for unauthorized leaving the court. V coach runs down to the endline line where I am, grabs my arm, and asks what call I've got. I explain that leaving the court in the manner his player did is a violation. His response, "The hell it is" (loud enough for players and probably fans to hear). I T'd him up. Report the T to the table and let him know he's lost the use of coaching box.

I'm thinking that I should have ejected him for grabbing my arm (not roughly) or possibly issued a T for coming on to the court and a T for his response. It all happened pretty fast. Any thoughts?

Do you know this coach personally? I would have T'd for 3 reasons!

VaTerp · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 01, 2011, 01:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by YooperRef

I had a JVG game last night where the following occurred in the second half. I am lead administering the throw-in. Visiting team is inbounding the ball on the endline near their basket. V1 inbounds the ball, steps on the court then steps back OOB and runs 15-20 ft. along the endline (OOB the entire time) and re-enters the court on the opposite side of the lane. Surprised me a little but I whistle the violation for unauthorized leaving the court. V coach runs down to the endline line where I am, grabs my arm, and asks what call I've got. I explain that leaving the court in the manner his player did is a violation. His response, "The hell it is" (loud enough for players and probably fans to hear). I T'd him up. Report the T to the table and let him know he's lost the use of coaching box.

I'm thinking that I should have ejected him for grabbing my arm (not roughly) or possibly issued a T for coming on to the court and a T for his response. It all happened pretty fast. Any thoughts?

I know things can happen very quickly on the court and things are always much easier in hindsight or commenting on a message board.

But I think you made a mistake in giving the coach ANY explanation when he is that far out of the box. When I see the coach "running" down to the endline I'm giving him a two hand stop sign and telling him to get back in the box. Depending on how quickly it happens, I will say something like, "Coach, I'll give you an explanantion but you need to be in the box."

And there is no justification for him grabbing your arm, no matter how gently he does it. And especially when he is that far out of his box. A coach even thinking they can run onto the court and question a call in this manner is unacceptable.

I would have run him and not thought twice about it.

Rich · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 01, 2011, 01:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by VaTerp

I know things can happen very quickly on the court and things are always much easier in hindsight or commenting on a message board.

But I think you made a mistake in giving the coach ANY explanation when he is that far out of the box. When I see the coach "running" down to the endline I'm giving him a two hand stop sign and telling him to get back in the box. Depending on how quickly it happens, I will say something like, "Coach, I'll give you an explanantion but you need to be in the box."

And there is no justification for him grabbing your arm, no matter how gently he does it. And especially when he is that far out of his box. A coach even thinking they can run onto the court and question a call in this manner is unacceptable.

I would have run him and not thought twice about it.

I'd go a step further. I'd T him immediately -- even before he reached me if I was quick enough to get the whistle up to my mouth. After that, I won't say anything to him until the coach is on the bench.

"We're not discussing anything until you're on the bench."

I'd be hard-pressed to keep him in the game if he grabbed my arm.