Louisiana Officials Possible Strike?
 

Unbelievable that rates are so low.

High school basketball officials set to strike this week over pay

$31? That is really pitiful. I get that for some Rec Ball games......

Anyone ever seen, or been part of, a "strike" over the yrs?

At $31, you are basiclly paying to officiate.

Yes you guys are right. It is because our pay needs to be approved the the lhsaa which is made up of 400+ principals and they approve or veto any pay raise. On Tuesday Feb 1, 2011 all games except for a few have been postponed. There is hope that games will be played on Friday. After today the LHSAA has passed an emergency resolution stating that ANYONE can officiate the basketball games.

The way the pay actually works, most people work 2 games so that is between 56 and 62 depending on your rating along with travel that ranges from 12-18 additional dollars per official. So if you are the highest rated and drive to one of our furthest member schools each official would recieve $80

Here is the link from BR

Officials? pay issues halt games | Latest News | 2theadvocate.com — Baton Rouge, LA

Are there enough officials to cover the games (including the effects of new officials joining, or not, the ranks) at $31? If so, then it's a fair price.

Some how they will twist it and say since the officials aren't working they are taking the game away from the kids.

Well you can imagine the quality of these games :rolleyes:

While I do not officiate for the money I also would not work for $31 as that would be losing money in the end.

Bob has a point. The more officials there are to cover the demand, the lower the rates will be. Scarcity increases rates.

That said, I'm glad to see officiating folk step up and negotiate harder.

Price can impact quality, and while I'm a free-marketer, sometimes in these situations negotiation is important.

If associations are seeing their ranks depleted of quality officials due to these low fees, and they are hearing from the schools about low quality, it sometimes takes drastic measures to get their attention.

I'm not a fan of striking when a contract exists - but this may work if they open the games up to anyone and find out what that's about.

I can't wait to hear the results of this policy.

^ Shoot, I'd like to see some of that footage!

Red lanyards. Silver whistles. Wind suit pants. White socks. Collared shirts. Those sneakers some guy posted on here a couple days ago.

Did I miss anything?

Calling FootLocker, we need some shirts.

Over the back signal... blocked shot signal... back pedalling... awful presentation to the table. Did I miss anything?

I see some of "these guys" in the off-season :eek:

Worked with a big school assistant coach last summer & after a few "weird" calls/mechanics, I ask him what rule was he basing a particular call on? He said, "I dont have a book, but I coached for 13 years so I know the game." :rolleyes:

That Guy.

Well, he will be pretty busy covering all of those games.

3 seconds.

I am glad to see a group of referees stand up for themselves.

Reading the articles there is a reference to the fact that most assignments are 2 games and some mileage, totaling ~80 for the average set of games. $80 and zero mileage is what TN pays.

TN has the same problem as LA "400 principles voted not to approve the agreed to raise". One side of the equation is represented and has input the other side has none. TN officials were promised a $5 per game raise for 2010/2011 the school administration controlled "Board of Control" revoked the raise during the summer "dead period" when no one was watching.

I am cheering for the officials.

He won't have all those games. I got some of them.

Wow, I'd have been tempted to respond, "Knowing the game and knowing the rules are two different things, coach."

I was, but I really like working his DPS games. I just said email me & I'll send you a rulebook.

They see alike
 

Just let the varsity coaches call the jv games and then the jv coaches call the varsity. That way they can call it like all coaches want it..from the standpoint of playing or coaching for x number years...they know the game.

Will they administer FTs & throw-ins from their benchside perches?:D

I wonder if Louisiana still uses 15-year-old 3-person mechanics where the center is always opposite the table. They were as of a couple of years ago and quite frankly that's all I needed to know about the state of basketball officiating in Louisiana.

A lot of us wear belts.

"That kid has four fouls. Let's make sure the last one is a real one."

Three seconds with no team control (rebound).

Backcourt violations from inbounds plays (most likely tipped in the frontcourt).

Free throws on team control fouls. ("It wasn't the dribbler/shooter.")

High dribble violations.

re:
 

We are in year two of allowing Center to be opposite the table (flex). I guess now we can see the light up ahead leading us out of the dark ages, but there is still more ground to cover. :(

Reaching in.

And the last 10 seconds will be a free for all so the kids decide the game.

So, I was wrong for calling an intentional on a player from the team trailing by 5 points with 2 seconds left last night?

Yep, and a 13 year coach would have known that.

Always a good thing to maintain our professionalism. Nicely done.

"Come on, you know what we were trying to do!"

I saw someone post about the rates in Louisiana. 12-18 for local travel. Not in New Orleans. We finally were able to raise our local travel to $8 from the previous $6 that was paid for who knows how long.

The rates here are ridiculous. The LHSAA created a new association called the LHSOA (Louisiana High School Officials Association). The LHSOA's sole responsibility is to act on behalf of all officials in the state. I'm hoping that they can get their stuff together and take care of this situation sooner than later.

In the majority of the state the only contracts in place are contracts that show that this school will use this association. The officials in those places have no obligation to work any games. You work as an independent contractor.

Also, for those of you who do not know, there are three levels of officials in Louisiana. Registered (70% on test), Approved (80% on test) and Certified (90% on test). There are amount of years restrictions on all 3 but i forget off the top of my head.

Varsity
3 man games
(+ travel)

$28 Registered
$29 Approved
$31 Certified

2 man games
(+travel)

$33 Registered
$34 Approved
$36 Certified

Sub varsity games scheduled with a varsity game are $25 + travel across the board.

Sub Varsity not scheduled with a varsity game are $22 + travel across the board.

Time will tell and we shall see.

Earl

$22 for a JV game? Wow.

I'm almost afraid to ask about AAU....

Yeah, our summer rates here are horrible, but it's court time. But frankly, $22 isn't much higher than that horrible summer rate.

I normally get at least a few games for every AAU tournament in New Orleans and we get $25 cash for those. Not bad and they go quickly. I try to spend the day at the facility and get 3 in the morning and 3 in the afternoon. walk out with $150 cash saturday and sunday.

Not bad at all for AAU.

I try... never heard from him unitl I worked their game in an early season tourney. He tried to pull that, "I ref too" crap with one of my partners. "Not tonight, COACH" says my partner! I loved it :D

Of course, I made the crew aware that he 'tried" officiaiting in the off-season, during our pregame!

Not bad at all. And all of the guys that get those games are all friends so we all have fun doing it. I always look forward to it.

We get $22-$25 per game for AAU type ball here. Was $30-$35 up north. But there were fewer tournaments.

Good to hear. But the fees could be doubled and you'd still be behind much of the nation. Schools here pay $60 to $65 for a single varsity game and $40 to $45 for a single subvarsity game. Mileage ranges from $0 to 30 cents a mile (round-trip, uncapped). And if you want to really feel shortchanged, ask NY officials (or BillyMac in CT) how much they get for a single game. Sure the cost of living is different, but not *that* different.

I'm getting between $62 and $75 for a single varsity. JV average is $42.50 with the high JV being $55.

Mileage varies with some maxed at $50 - some not paying mileage at all and some $.42/mile roundtrip.

Look For The Union Label ...
 

By contract with the state interscholastic sports governing body, we get automatic raises every year equal to the average raise that teachers across the entire state get. This way we avoid the traditional labor problems that officials and schools got into every few years. No more deals worked out in smoke filled rooms.

Here in the Land of Steady Habits, and the Land of Two Person Games: $88.28 for all varsity games. $57.25 for all subvarsity games (junior varsity, freshman, middle school). No mileage, it's a small state, and we pretty much stay in our own county.

here you go.... well, it's not quite game footage...but it's post-game footage. :D

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_arti...4776&catid=396

Earl:

Do those figures include post-season games, too?

No, post season is more. Don't have the exact figures.

Southern California Rates
 

Man that's tough for the kids! I too am rooting for our Louisiana brothers and sisters.Our formula for pay is kind of complicated but here it is for comparison.

BASKETBALL
A. Varsity Game (3 Officials Assigned) $66
B. Varsity Game (2 Officials Assigned) $70
C. Varsity Game (1 Official Assigned) $81
D. Non-Varsity Game (2 Officials Assigned)$59
E. Non-Varsity Game (1 Official Assigned) $68

CIF-SS PLAYOFF FEES ROUNDS - $79 (2 officials)/$75 (3 officials) FINALS - $87(2 officials)/$83(3 officials)

3-man is mandatory here with the quarterfinals onward.

Travel:

A. A flat fee will be used to compensate officials for round-trip travel based on the following scale:
51 - 75 miles = $12.00
76 - 125 miles = $18.00
126 - 175 miles = $30.00
176 - 250 miles = $42.00
251 - 350 miles = $54.00
351 - 450 miles = $72.00
451 miles and above = For distances beyond 450 miles, the following formula will be utilized:
Begin with $72.00, which represents 450 miles round trip
Add $2.40 for every 15 additional miles traveled round trip
Example: 525 miles round trip = $72.00 (First 450 miles)
additional 75 miles = $12.00 (75 divided by 15 = 5, multiplied by $2.40)
Total mileage reimbursement = $84.00

B. The origination point for official’s mileage will be determined in the following way:
1. Regular Season - From the official’s home residence within the assignment area, to the location of their contest.Officials who live or work outside their assignment area will only be compensated for mileage from the point they enter their assignment area. All officials are entitled to mileage if they drive separately to contests.

2. Playoffs - From the location of the meeting place for the officials association.
Note: For playoffs only, mileage will be paid to the Head Official of all officiating crews in all sports.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

"WTF" (Sarah Palin) ...
 

Agree. One varsity official assigned? I can see an agreed upon fee for only having one varsity official (schedule error, human error, car accident, injury, sickness, etc), ours is 150% of a game fee. We will occasionally assign only one official to a 3:30 p.m. middle school game, or 4:00 p.m. freshman game, but that's due to the lack of available officials for midafternoon games (most of us have day jobs). As far as I know we always have two officials (remember, it's Connecticut) assigned for all high school varsity, and junior varsity games.

I've never seen a situation where one official is assigned to a varsity games.My best guess is that it is an emergency rate (somebody gets sick or something of that nature).

An update

LHSAA meeting set on officials' work stoppage - NOLA.com From New Orleans


Basketball officials meeting with panel | Sports | 2theadvocate.com — Baton Rouge, LA From Baton Rouge

I read the articles. Love this quote:

Who the hell are the principals to determine if the "officiating has improved?" 99% of HS principals have no idea what it takes to officiate (the other 1% are officials themselves).

It's wrong .... tried to fix it the way it should read:)

Wonder how many principals got a raise since 2007?

That's the purpose of a strike, to ensure that there are NOT enough officials to cover the games. Then, the price will go up.

This part of the article is good, too:

Some principals cited economic issues, which have led to lagging attendance, as one reason the pay hikes were voted down. That vote, coupled with the passage of a proposal by Glueck on behalf of Baton Rouge principals that would require basketball officials associations to provide two-person crews instead of previously mandated three-person crews for nondistrict and tournament games has complicated the issue.

“It’s tough for me, because I’ve been on both sides of this,” Alexander said. “I’ve been and official and I’ve been a principal, too.

“During the last 15 years or so the level of play for boys and girls basketball has improved. The players today are more athletic and the game is faster. The idea behind a three-man crew is to compensate for that.”

Bastrop’s Bryan Greenwood, president of the Louisiana High School Officials Association, said going from three-person to two-person basketball crews — even for some games — leads to a deeper issue.

“If basketball officials wanted to make more money, they could go call middle school or youth league games and do that,” Greenwood said. “Most of us call high school games because we love doing it.

“By the same token if you hire a plumber you can’t tell him, ‘Sorry, I can’t afford to pay you as much as other the other plumbers out there.’ ”


If officials make more money working middle school and youth league games, then the schools need to sit back and realize they simply don't pay their officials well enough.

"Don't Be A Plumber" ...
 

Is this the analogy that you really wanted to use? Or, did you really want to sue it? You sly dog.

I do not see why not. ;)

Cause if you do not pay the plumber you will leave a lot of crap behind. Some goes for the fees for officials.

Peace

This thing is taking a lot of turns. Got a call yesterday morning to go call some games today out of our normal area. Got another call an hour later saying there were threats of trouble if we went out of area so we weren't going to go.
This morning got another call saying forget the threats, some other guys called out of area last night, so no big deal, got another long distance assignment for today. Got another call a few minutes ago saying there's a meeting going on now in which they're trying to say that any games played with officials that crossed lines won't count, so the deal's off again.

I bet guys who live near the border of another state belong to the other state associations. Or, if they don't, they will.

I'm confused. You were going to cross?

You planning on scabbing, huh? Make sure nobody is able to hang you up by your belt, then.

My question also. Why would any referee undermine the attempt to get better compensation when the pay is ranked 50 out of 50? :confused: Do you feel that you and other referees are currently being compensated fairly? :rolleyes:

Give him a break. Maybe he just likes to call out of his area.

There could be other factors involved....unfortunately. If his association is directing him to go somewhere, he might not have much choice but to go, other than making up an excuse to decline the games.

That's the problem when you get into situations like this and different officiating associations in a state with maybe different viewpoints are involved. Hopefully every official in each association was allowed their say and the majority rules, but there's a real world out there also.

Imo it's a no-brainer. If they don't do something, they'll be working for $36 a freaking game ten years from now. And also imo, unless they do do something about it, they really have no right to b!tch.

Which is why I asked.

I know. I was just looking for an excuse to get in a cheap belt joke. :D

Holy CRAP that's funny.

But, his belt might be expensive...

I kinda picture JAR wearing a belt with a buckle about the size of a hubcap off a Ford F150 pick-up.

Hell, if they're still using mid-80's 3-man mechanics, of course they'll still be wearing belts.:)

You forgot belts. How could you forget the belts? :D

With wind suit pants?

On a smaller scale there is an AAU outfit in northern suburbs of Chicago, Joy of the Game that has their own facility, four courts, workout area etc. It's well attended with instruction, AAU teams, and constant tournaments all year round. The owner is notoriously cheap, paying 25 a game which is low for our area and really has no respect for officials. On occassion if you had a four game set and third was cancelled yet you had to hang around for fourth game, he'd try and weasel out of paying for that game despite already receiving tourney fees from teams. They have now gone to paying 22.50 a game. Sadly, there are officials who will drive a long way to take the games. As you can imagine, the officiating is poor, and when they and try and slip in a stop clock tourney to attract more teams, this typically adds at least an hour extra to a four game set, no extra pay.

I always felt slimy when taking games there, and only would if I had nothing better to do. Glad they lowered fees as they'll never hear my whistle there again.

That said, it's basic economics, some guys will work for that.

Have some pride.

Normally, I'm not very supported of strikes and have no problem with people working anyway. However, in this case, being 50th out of 50, it doesn't make ANY sense. Every official in the entire state should strike until they get at least decent pay. They're severely underpaid and they'll all come out better in the end.

Although I grew up the son and grandson of union factory workers (and the namesake of both of them), I'm the same way. I understand it's a hard time to ask for a raise, but it's a raise that was apparently already agreed upon before it was arbitrarily rescinded. I'm normally sympathetic towards those who cross the line because they need to feed family, but this is a part time job. I find myself firmly on the side of the strike here.

I'm still waiting for his answer, though.

Curious what table people get? Usually working at school, no drive and certainly don't need to be there an hour before varsity contest.

I don't work at my school on campus but I do work all the games in a night home and away (JVG,JVB,VG,VB).My day starts at about 2PM getting ready for a JVG game that starts at 3.Our other tip times are 4:30 (JVB),6:00 (VG),7:30 (VB).I do stats for the two JV games and scorebook for the two varsity teams.After the last game I have about a thirty minute drive home,eat dinner,then put the varsity girls stats on maxpreps and report the score to the papers.Usually I'm in bed by about 11:30 or midnight.

In terms of on campus staff serving as table crew all but two use faculty in each seat (shot clock and game clock operator).The two that don't use students who do a very passable job.

Scorekeepers in our Boys League:Only two are on-campus staff (one a drama teacher,the other an on campus aide).The other five adults who are scorekeepers (including myself) are walk ons.One school has a student doing their official book.

Scorekeepers in our Girls League:Only two are on-campus staff (one a drama teacher,the other a guidance counselor).The other five adults who are scorekeepers (including myself) are walk ons.One school has a student doing their book.

If you're curious as to what I get paid leave me a PM and I'll be more than happy to tell you.

My association is not a part of the work stoppage. I go where I am assigned. End of that story.

As to the work stoppage itself. The fees are what they are. The argument has been made that they are too low. Obviously that is a point of contention.
BUT, the wages were agreed to and the contracts were signed for this year. The pay raise in question would be for next year. When it was denied, you stop now? I don't do business that way.

All I needed to know, thanks.

I like JAR's stance on the issue.
However, I think the insistence on a rookie salary cap and free agency are a little over the top!!:D

And as I read it, the officials were promised bi-yearly pay raises back in 2007 and none of those were ever implemented. Apparently the principals aren't too fond of following through on their promises also.

Jar, if you think $36/game is a fair high school rate, hey, work your tail off. And if your association wants to say t'hell with all the other associations that are trying to make things better for all officials in the state, then hey, all of them can work their damn tails off too working the games that the other officials are refusing to work. Me? I don't do business that way.

There's a reason that officials are only getting $36/game in your state. And imo your association is part of that reason. I can understand you having to do what your association tells you to do. I can't understand your association's stance though.

I think JAR is right. If you signed the contract, you need to work the game. If you aren't being paid enough (and they're not being paid enough), don't sign the contract for next year.

They aren't a union (unless I'm really missing something and officials are in fact school employees and have a certified union in LA). They're not on strike; they're just breaking contracts. The schools will have no trouble nailing them to the wall on breach of contracts suits. The only worse thing than getting paid $36 to call a varsity game would be paying a breach of contract fine for not calling a varsity game.

Honor your word, then stop dealing with people who don't pay you what you're worth.

What contract does any official have with their association? Or with anybody? They can decline any game they want to.

Ridiculous logic imo. And it would never fly in any court of law.

+1

Kind of hard to be expected to honor a contract with a entity that has proven to you that they do not intend to honor their part of the contract. Me? I do not do business that way, past the one time it takes me to see the other party has no honor.

I don't GAF if the union is "certified." Negotiating takes strength and that comes in numbers.

As for breach of contract, are you high? We're private contractors and thus we aren't obligated to accept any assignment, especially one that's paying such crap wages.

Your area must be different than mine. In my area, I sign a contract with the home school for every game I accept when they are assigned at the beginning of the season. You'd better believe they'd hold up in a court of law.

If the LA officials don't sign contracts individually, I would be very surprised if the associations don't. Nothing at this level gets done without a contract.

Right, we aren't required to sign the contract for the game. But once you have signed the contract for the game you are bound by the terms of that contract. If they didn't like the pay (and who would), they shouldn't have signed the contract.

I agree that they should all in mass refuse new contracts, but they are bound by the individual contracts they have already signed (assuming it works there like it does here). There will be hell to pay for breaking the contracts they had already accepted.

The expectation was bi-yearly pay raises of $3/official every 2 years starting in 2007. Nothing has been done to date. It was already explained in the one story linked that there are no contracts with any individual officials in La and no officials are employed by the LHSAA. The contracts are with different associations. And if an association can't find enough sub-contractors to meet committments, oh well. :)

I see. So the individual referees may be out of Dodge, but it certainly won't be "oh well" for the associations. They will face fines for lack of performance on their contractual obligations. This probably ends with all the current associations having to dissolve in order to not pay thousands of dollars in damages to the state association (or whoever they contract with).

My point is this is not a real strike (as a real strike involves a union and an employer) and the associations do not enjoy the protections the law provides to striking unions.

And if the state has not met it's contractual obligations in regards to a pay raise, sue them, but defaulting on your contract is always going to end up biting you in the butt.

What our areas do is meaningless. It's what LA does that counts.

In the stories already posted, it was confirmed that no LA officials sign individual contracts and no LA officials are employed in any way by the LHSAA. Every LA official is an independant contractor and can turn down any game they choose to. The contract is between the LHSAA region and an individual officials association. And if that association can't supply officials because of a lack of sub-contractors willing to work for them, then that ain't the sub contractors problem.

Methinks the average official in LA is finally saying enough is enough.

I'm not a lawyer but I think a lot would depend on the nature of the contract signed. Unless one of those associations is completely clueless, they should have some rider in their contract re:availability of people willing to work at any specific time.

Nope, this isn't a strike of any kind. It's an uprising. :D

Seriously, neither the LHSAA or the various officials associations can force their members to work. That why somewhere along the line the LHSAA needs to sit down and straighten things out. Unless I'm reading all of those newspaper links wrong, the officials thought they had come to some kind of an agreement back in 2007.

That depends on how good their lawyers are. :D

And long overdue at that

That's true, but the courts can enforce contracts. What they may end up entailing I can't say for sure but it's not likely to be pleasant for the associations, especially if they are instructing officials not to work.

I agree that LHSAA needs to step up to their 2007 agreement and get with the program.

Don't forget to read Chapter 12: Tort Reform for tomorrow!
 

To elaborate on this point: The officials/sub contractors make up the Associations who contracted with the Schools.
So say for instance the "Bayou Officials Association" or BOA signs a contract to cover games for the "Riverboat District" games at such and such a rate and all that other fine stuff. (SIDEBAR: I can't BELIEVE there is no fine print detailing the fines and penalties of BOC by either party in the contracts) The BOA's obviously determines they have enough officials in their stable to meet the contract b4 signing.
Now if the BOA's officials get "Stripe Sickness" and don't work that would cause the BOA to be unable to cover the games they are contractually obligated to cover in the Riverboat District. It is the BOA who will take the heat not the officials.
HOWEVER, and this is "the rub", what happens if/when the labor dispute gets resolved? If the BOA is found in BOC with the Riverboat District, there will most likely be damages (def. compensatory and maybe punitive) awarded the Riverboat District that the BOA is responsible for paying. Now, the BOA is getting paid $75/game and all the officials are happy. Unfortunately for them, the BOA is still on the hook for the damages caused by the "sub contractors" which caused the BOA to be in BOC with the RD. (Say THAT 10xs fast!) What is the BOA to do? One option would be to raise whatever fees they charge their members/sub contractors to be members of the BOA. They could file bankruptcy, which then causes a whole BUNCH of issues. Or they could just dissolve the BOA. However, that would necessitate a new association being formed, and may cause angst with the Schools as they will now NOT be getting money from the "old" association and still having to pay higher rates to the "new" assocaition (Cue WHO song)
Now, if the "sub contractors" continued to work under the existing contract until it expires all of that is moot. When the schools come around with a "new" contract offer for a whopping $36.50 + a glass of water, the BOA can say thank you but no thank you to the schools. If EVERY association does this, the schools will then have to 1) SERIOUSLY negotiate a new deal with the association 2) Re Vamp how they obtain their officials. So instead of contracting with an association, they contract with individuals or 3) Have the players call their own! Finally, the BOA would not be on the hook for any damages caused the schools and the schools would NOT have a bargaining chip (fines, damages etc) they can use in contract negotiations with the BOA.

Yep, I still like JAR's thought process.

I guess if associations have contracts with certain schools or districts, that certain other associations shouldn't be poaching those contracts thinking that if they work those games they might get more contracts down the line. If they want to work their own games, that is one thing, but going to other areas is just plain wrong IMO.

Both parties need to come to some kind of an agreement that is acceptable to each other. And the officials don't need to kill themselves internally while an agreement is being reached either. Association vs. association in-fighting can't possibly do any good for any of the LA officials imo.

Do the math. Say a team plays 30 games a year...15 at home, 15 away. The raise was $3/official over 2 years based on a 3-man crew. That's $9/game X 15 games = $145 a year. I just can't believe that any high school is that hard pressed that it would have to drop a major varsity sport over $145/year.

100% agree. Although you would have to double that since there usually is a boys team as well.:D
Plus, have you seen the going rate of a Hot Dog or Nacho these days? Those boosters are out to get you!! Seriously!! What happened to $1 hot dogs $.50 popcorn and $1.50 nachos!!!

While I'd hope they would stick together, their right to pick up the games others are refusing is basic free trade and competition.

I doubt it would go that way. Associations, for the most part, are small non-profits will a very small bank account. The second they get sued (lacking any insurance that will step in), they dissolve. They just don't have the resources to involve lawyers. The schools will know that. And guess what, new associations will form with mostly the same people, and the schools will be in the same boat, except they will have spent the initial money on lawyers.