Pick Your Poison ...
 

Three choices: Double personal fouls, maybe intentional, maybe flagrant?

Unsporting Double Ts for the action that preceded the contact.

Pushing The Envelope ???
 

That's one hell of a delayed call. Unless your talking about the seconds immediately before the contact, in which case I would have liked to have heard what was said before I T'd them up. I like the intentionals, or if I was in a bad mood in that part of the game, the flagrants.

I'm talking right before, not two trips earlier. And watching them "load up" would be enough for me.

Agreed. By rule, he probably should have gone double personal fouls, but I don't have that big a problem with stretching this a bit in a men's rec game.

The problem is: What does double intentionals accomplish? The end result is the same as double personals of the common variety. I didnt feel like their actions warranted flagrants but definitely felt it should have been stronger than just a common double foul. The Ts put both players on notice that no other BS would be tolerated from either of them and neither said a peep the rest of the game. I don't think double intentionals would have had the same effect.

But after looking at the rules book it looks like I grossly misunderstood 4.19.3 in thinking that it allowed for live ball technicals in this situation. Which after reading 4.19.4 and 5 it CLEARLY does not.

The time from their "load ups" to contact was too short for me to do anything about it. I did stretch the rules a bit but glad this occurred in men's rec.

Still though, it seems to me that is a bit of a hole in the rules for a situation where you have two opposing players engaging in "contact away from the ball." By rule this would be double intentionals but again, what does that do?

That also leads to a kinda wild situation I had tonite in a scholastic game. I'll have to share details in a thread tomorrow.

My Line
 

Two examples come to mind this year where mine was crossed:

I called two offensive (PC) fouls on the same player in the first quarter of a JV B game last week. The lad will be a good player, but he has a terrible habit of pushing off the defender to create space as he brings the ball up. The more defensive pressure, the harder he pushes. After the second PC foul the coach stands up and pulls chestnuts 1,2,3 out of the coaching protest manual. ("How can you call that", "you have it in for the kid", and "other officials didn't call that a foul during the season") I might have let him rant if he hadn't started yelling from the bench, but finished somewhere around the center circle. As I started to call his well earned technical he yells "I suppose you're going to give me a technical now". Ah, yes coach I think you've earned it. (my partner called the same foul, same player a third time at the start of the second half)

This past weekend (B-5G) an AC, as a time out was granted to his team after the HC requested one, started using my personal favorite "you have to call them both ways ref" loudly enough for the entire gym to hear. After I glanced over at the bench, which usually stops the talking, he yells "that's just Bulls#t". Whistle, T administered. The HC was pretty pleased, losing the coachnig box because his AC couldn't keep his mouth shut.

Both of those cross my line immediately. They can question my judgment but I won't let anybody question my integrity.

Whack!

The evaluator at my game the other day won a bet with a fan. I T'd a player. The only thing the fans saw was a player slap the floor with both hands. The fan was yelling that she was just upset with herself. The evaluator, who was in cognito, told the fan that he suspects there was more too it. Obviously he asks me what happened and I said I was going to let the floor slap go b/c you can't tell if she was upset with herself, the call or the fact that CocaCola hasn't gone with a "throwback" cola like Pepsi! BUT when she said "That was F**** Bull S****" I go with a "T". Maybe I should have asked for part of the winnings?

nope. You're not. live ball contact must be a personal- common or shooting, intentional or flagrant.

Exactly. He wouldn't have got past "you have it in for the kid" before my whistle would have blown. I've never actually heard that one.

yes sir every day of the week and twice on sunday. Got caught up, wont happen again, well i hope anyways.