Help with a rule.

[newladyref]

I've been out here lurking for a few years. I know some of you can be quite hard on people that "should" know the answer to their own questions. So, please don't beat me up if I should know the answer to this.

A1 tries to make a pass to A2 but for some reason completely misses and throws the ball hard directly in the face of her defender B1. She didn't do it on purpose but it was excessive.

Can you call an intentional foul on A1? If not, do you call anything?

Thanks!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by newladyref

I've been out here lurking for a few years. I know some of you can be quite hard on people that "should" know the answer to their own questions. So, please don't beat me up if I should know the answer to this.

A1 tries to make a pass to A2 but for some reason completely misses and throws the ball hard directly in the face of her defender B1. She didn't do it on purpose but it was excessive.

Can you call an intentional foul on A1? If not, do you call anything?

Thanks!

I wouldn't, if it really wasn't on purpose.

See 10.3.6B for guidance

[RobbyinTN]

No call since it wasn't on purpose. Had it been on purpose you could have given a T for unsporting conduct.

[APG]

This is a play on. For an intentional foul during a live ball, contact is required. If you thought the player intentionally threw the ball at a players face, an unsporting technical foul could be called (a case for a flagrant technical foul could also be made).

[bainsey]

What they said.

NLR, never be afraid to make a fool of yourself on an online message board, particularly when most of us are anonymous. It's far better to screw something up here than on the court.

[Adam]

Your question's been answered, so I'll just say welcome to the board from a former Jasper County resident.

[refiator]

You could not call a technical foul in this case since it is a live ball...only an intentional or flagrant foul....but since you say it was not on purpose, chalk it up as incidental.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by refiator

You could not call a technical foul in this case since it is a live ball...only an intentional or flagrant foul....but since you say it was not on purpose, chalk it up as incidental.

You should rethink this. This would have to be a technical foul, possibly flagrant, if you call anything.

There are two types of fouls: personal (including intentional and flagrant) and technical (also including intentional and flagrant). Personal requires contact, so this would have to be technical.

[refiator]

This would be a flagrant personal foul. A flagrant technical foul would occur if the ball were dead and the player then threw the ball at the opponent.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by refiator

This would be a flagrant personal foul. A flagrant technical foul would occur if the ball were dead and the player then threw the ball at the opponent.

It's not a personal foul. A personal foul is a player foul which involves illegal contact with an opponent. Hitting someone with a ball is NOT contact with that opponent. If you make this call, it's an unsporting NON-CONTAT technical foul. Flagrant would depends on the severity of the situation.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by newladyref

I've been out here lurking for a few years. I know some of you can be quite hard on people that "should" know the answer to their own questions. So, please don't beat me up if I should know the answer to this.

Stoopid people get beat up. There's nothing stoopid about you or your question. Welcome to the forum.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by refiator

This would be a flagrant personal foul. A flagrant technical foul would occur if the ball were dead and the player then threw the ball at the opponent.

As Snaqs has already pointed out, that's completely wrong by rule. Throwing the ball at an opponent during a live ball is a non-physical contact unsporting act penalized under NFHS rule 4-19-5(b). It's no different than swearing at an opponent during a live ball. And NFHS rule 4-19-1 states that any personal foul while the ball is live has to involve illegal contact with an opponent. There was no physical contact ever made in the OP.

The same concept is used on a throw-in. The ball is live on a throw-in and if a defender reaches OOB to touch the ball, it's a technical foul by rule. If the defender reaches OOB and makes illegal physical contact with the thrower though, it would be an intentional personal foul by rule.

It's not a bad idea when someone tells you that you're wrong by rule to take a minute to actually open the rule book and check out the pertinent rule before disagreeing.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by refiator

This would be a flagrant personal foul. A flagrant technical foul would occur if the ball were dead and the player then threw the ball at the opponent.

So, A1 is bringing the ball up the court (live ball) when a) A coach swears at you for not calling a foul on B1 b) A1 swears at you for not calling a foul c) B1 screams at you for not calling palming.

You're calling personal fouls here since the ball is live?

JR has given you the rule references.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by refiator

You could not call a technical foul in this case since it is a live ball...only an intentional or flagrant foul.....

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

[refiator]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

So, A1 is bringing the ball up the court (live ball) when a) A coach swears at you for not calling a foul on B1 b) A1 swears at you for not calling a foul c) B1 screams at you for not calling palming.

You're calling personal fouls here since the ball is live?

JR has given you the rule references.

No....I think we were just disagreeing on what "contact" is. In this case I was considering the thrown ball as a "rough tactic" by an opponent (10.6.1) and as "contact", but I see your point as well.












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