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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 21, 2011, 02:52pm
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Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
And more importantly, much of what we do indeed DOES have a ripple effect. That's no opinion. That's a fact, and I'm stunned you can't see that.
It was your stated opinion that expressing (in this forum) a dislike for this formality is somehow going to make us seem "more distant and unapproachable." In that context, your "ripple effect" metaphor is silly opinion.

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Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
I won't disagree with the latter sentence, but think about the former. What do you think players learn from this mandated pleasantry? RESPECT, sir! And it carries over into the game.
You don't teach respect to kids through ceremony. They see that crap for what it is. That's my opinion.

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Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
If a player shakes your hand, and you're keeping an attitude of "you're only doing this, kid, because your coach told you to," then you're often dismissing the very respect the coach is trying to teach.
No, I'm dismissing a freaking ceremony. I'll judge their respect by how they act during the game. If there's a verified correlation between teams who perform this formality and how they act towards officials during the game, I haven't seen it.
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Last edited by Adam; Fri Jan 21, 2011 at 03:07pm.
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Old Fri Jan 21, 2011, 03:12pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Get a grip and come down from your high horse
"High horse" is indeed an effective methaphor, but it's often used by those who don't want to meet a standard.

Quote:
It's your stated opinion that expressing (in this forum) a dislike for this formality is somehow going to make us seem "more distant and unapproachable."
Yes, that's my opinion, but that's not what I said. I said "much of what we do has a ripple effect." That's a fact.

Quote:
You don't teach respect to kids through ceremony. They see that crap for what it is.
So shaking hands is now a crappy move? Wow, you're cynical, and that's my opinion.

Certainly, one who shakes my hand one minute is not going to get away with cursing me out the next, but that's very rare, and I will remember the handshake, because the kids made a effort -- mandated or otherwise -- to be sportsmanlike. That's something that needs to be respected, not scrutinized.
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Old Fri Jan 21, 2011, 03:14pm
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How many here can remember even one handshake with an official as a player?
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Old Fri Jan 21, 2011, 03:20pm
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Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap View Post
How many here can remember even one handshake with an official as a player?
I cannot. But then again this was not the practice when I lived. I do remember when people will not shake my hand in and out of officiating. It tells me something about their relationship with me or maybe what they think of me. And yes it is usually not a positive interaction, which is why I continue to say, if you purposely ignore someone trying to give you a handshake that will be remembered by some longer than you think.

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Old Fri Jan 21, 2011, 03:25pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I cannot. But then again this was not the practice when I lived. I do remember when people will not shake my hand in and out of officiating. It tells me something about their relationship with me or maybe what they think of me. And yes it is usually not a positive interaction, which is why I continue to say, if you purposely ignore someone trying to give you a handshake that will be remembered by some longer than you think.

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I don't think anyone here has advocated ignoring a handshake attempt. I may have missed it, though.
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Old Fri Jan 21, 2011, 06:08pm
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Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap View Post
How many here can remember even one handshake with an official as a player?
I shook J. Dallas Shirley's hand in Arlington, VA on Feb 13, 1966. Haven't washed it since
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Old Fri Jan 21, 2011, 11:01pm
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Originally Posted by justacoach View Post
I shook J. Dallas Shirley's hand in Arlington, VA on Feb 13, 1966. Haven't washed it since
Sounds OO to me.
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Old Sat Jan 22, 2011, 12:45am
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I'm not a big fan of the "fist bump". Don't like shaking that many hands. Usually around here we give high fives. When in Rome... if both my partners do the "fist bump" I do to. I like the interaction. I won't delay the game but I try to pleasantly interact with coaches, players, and occasionally fans. A long time ago I was told I called a good game but was not really liked by some coaches because I seemed unapproachable. I don't like that and have tried to change it. We are looked at as "the bad guy" enough as it is. I want to seem serious, yet casual. I want to convey that this is after all just a game. I want to seem human. It has worked for me for a long time now.
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Old Sat Jan 22, 2011, 01:28am
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Get captains and coaches together at mid-court and regurgitate the GHSA script- "Coaches, are you players properly equipped and wearing their equipment properly?" Translation - we are also the fashion police, so be sure shirts are tucked and pants above the waste. Also. "Good sportsmanship is expected".
Dismiss coaches and tell speaking captain to control teammates and coaches. Good luck and have fun.

This is a 30 second meeting. The players aren't listening anyway. Not the time for a rules clinic and court description.













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Old Fri Jan 21, 2011, 03:38pm
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Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
"High horse" is indeed an effective methaphor, but it's often used by those who don't want to meet a standard.
I deleted it because it was over the top; I apologize.

You're half-wrong (by omission) about when it's used. It's used when someone presents a standard that's ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
Yes, that's my opinion, but that's not what I said. I said "much of what we do has a ripple effect." That's a fact.
And out of context, your statement is almost a truism. It's true because it's so vague.
In context, it's silly opinion, because you're saying that RD's expression of dislike for this particular ceremony has a ripple effect on sportsmanship with players who will never read this board.

If you really believe this, then I take back my statement that it was hyperbole.

It's stupid.

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Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
So shaking hands is now a crappy move? Wow, you're cynical, and that's my opinion.
I didn't say it was a crappy move. Thinking it has any bearing on a player's sportsmanship is crap (hyperbolic metaphor). Compared to actually teaching and modeling sportsmanship, it's crap. Kids see through it. Shaking hands is pointless without the teaching; and it's not necessary with it.

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Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
Certainly, one who shakes my hand one minute is not going to get away with cursing me out the next, but that's very rare, and I will remember the handshake, because the kids made a effort -- mandated or otherwise -- to be sportsmanlike. That's something that needs to be respected, not scrutinized.
I don't remember which teams shake my hand and which ones don't. If my wife asked me when I got home from the game, I probably wouldn't remember. I don't scrutinize it, either.

I think the idea of hiding from them is silly. But I also think it's silly to give too much credence to a formality.
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Old Fri Jan 21, 2011, 04:49pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
I deleted it because it was over the top; I apologize.
Accepted.

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In context, it's silly opinion, because you're saying that RD's expression of dislike for this particular ceremony has a ripple effect on sportsmanship with players who will never read this board.
No sir, that's not what I said. Go take another look. I said, the ripple effect comes from our actions on the court, not from an opinion here.

Quote:
I didn't say it was a crappy move. Thinking it has any bearing on a player's sportsmanship is crap (hyperbolic metaphor). Compared to actually teaching and modeling sportsmanship, it's crap. Kids see through it. Shaking hands is pointless without the teaching; and it's not necessary with it.
Pointless without? Certainly, then it reeks of being disingenuous. Not necessary? Perhaps. However, I believe it's typically a part of a coach's standard for teaching sportsmanship. Until you have evidence otherwise, you'd have to go with that. Will some kids shake your hand reluctantly? Certainly. But, they'll typically get it as they grow.

Quote:
I don't remember which teams shake my hand and which ones don't. If my wife asked me when I got home from the game, I probably wouldn't remember.
Therein lies the difference. I certainly would. Perhaps not a month or two later, but that night? Absolutely. I have a lot of respect those who choose to step it up.
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Old Fri Jan 21, 2011, 04:59pm
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[QUOTE=bainsey;720140]No sir, that's not what I said. Go take another look. I said, the ripple effect comes from our actions on the court, not from an opinion here.[quote]
But the context was about a comment made on this board by someone who had already indicated he allows the handshakes in spite of his personal preference.

You wrote, "to even suggest that...." That's what I called hyperbole (from the beginning), and I stand by that now; given what you wrote above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
Pointless without? Certainly, then it reeks of being disingenuous. Not necessary? Perhaps. However, I believe it's typically a part of a coach's standard for teaching sportsmanship. Until you have evidence otherwise, you'd have to go with that. Will some kids shake your hand reluctantly? Certainly. But, they'll typically get it as they grow.
There's no evidence either way, so our opinions on this are equally valid.


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Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
Therein lies the difference. I certainly would. Perhaps not a month or two later, but that night? Absolutely. I have a lot of respect those who choose to step it up.
"Step it up?" Really? Yeah, that's the difference. It's no more stepping it up than when I salute an officer. 50% of the time, I do it because I have to. 50% of the time I do it because I actually respect that officer. None of them will ever know the difference.

Personally, I have no more nor less respect for those that do as opposed to those that don't.
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Old Fri Jan 21, 2011, 05:20pm
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It's no more stepping it up than when I salute an officer. 50% of the time, I do it because I have to. 50% of the time I do it because I actually respect that officer. None of them will ever know the difference.
I think we're starting to see motivations here.

You have to salute an officer. (Thanks for your service, by the way. I salute you.) Coaches don't have to make their kids shake my hand. Therefore, I remember the teams that do. It may not always come from the heart (eye contact says a lot), but I remember the teams that "step it up."
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Old Fri Jan 21, 2011, 05:34pm
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I think we're starting to see motivations here.

You have to salute an officer. (Thanks for your service, by the way. I salute you.) Coaches don't have to make their kids shake my hand. Therefore, I remember the teams that do. It may not always come from the heart (eye contact says a lot), but I remember the teams that "step it up."
1. Not my point, but thank you.
2. We're going in circles now; I'm done.
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