Shot clock......

[DrakeM]

Just looking through the NCAA rules.
There is a difference between NCAA and Pro rules when it comes to a period ending on a shot clock violation.
IN the NCAA, the situation is given where a 2 second difference is given between the game clock and the shot clock. The shot is released and then the buzzer sounds, the ball does not hit the rim. however the official's whistle does not sound until the game clock buzzer sounds. In NCAA, the period is over, and the shot clock is not reset, even though there was a violation. In the WNBA, we would put two seconds back on the clock. To me the NCAA rule doesn't make sense.
I mean, they are basically saying that there is no violation
until it is noticed by the official.
Any thoughts?
Drake

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by DrakeM

I mean, they are basically saying that there is no violation
until it is noticed by the official.

That's my take on it.

If you don't whistle a travel, it's not penalized, and it technically isn't a violation. Also, if the travel occurs at 43.1 and you whistle it at 41.8, the clock is set to 41.8, not 43.1 (unless you had some problem with your whistle or the like).

Only difference with the shot clock/game clock problem is that it is rather obvious to everyone in the arena.

Also, with shot clock violations, you may not know exactly what happens until a few seconds have gone off the clocks - time may just expire in that case. (Consider shot, horn, shot is good - we don't whistle it dead, and you could have a full second there. Also, shot, horn, shot is no good - that's when you actually do have the violation - when the shot is no good.)

I can see resetting the clock to the time when it's obvious that you have a violation, but this isn't necessarily the time on the game clock when the shot clock goes off.

[DrakeM]

but this isn't necessarily the time on the game clock when the shot clock goes off.

If the game clock at the beginning of the posession reads
:37, and at :02, the quidelines for not creating a shot clock violation have not been met, (shot not released, shot not hitting the ring of the team in possession,) and provided you didn't have a reset for another reason,(change of possession,personal foul,punched or kicked ball)
then how could the clock read anything other than :02?
Keep in mind I will call the rule the way it is written, but just wondering why NCAA and Pro rules differ on this point.

[hawkk]

I suspect that the pro rule is drafted for clarity, and ignores reality; the NCAA rule, I think, recognizes reality (and perhaps lag time as well).

Consider: Possession starts at :37 on the game clock. A1 just barely beats the shot clock putting up a high arching 3 point shot -- never timed it, but I'd guess that is in the air for about a second -- if it's an airball, the violation only occurs once it is apparent that the shot missed entirely -- add a second of lag time, and game buzzer goes off.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by DrakeM
but this isn't necessarily the time on the game clock when the shot clock goes off.

If the game clock at the beginning of the posession reads
:37, and at :02, the quidelines for not creating a shot clock violation have not been met, (shot not released, shot not hitting the ring of the team in possession,) and provided you didn't have a reset for another reason,(change of possession,personal foul,punched or kicked ball)
then how could the clock read anything other than :02?
Keep in mind I will call the rule the way it is written, but just wondering why NCAA and Pro rules differ on this point.

NCAA 2-13-8 says the shot clock buzzer shall not stop play
if it is not recognized by a whistle, so the interpretation
A.R. 33 (your play) is consistent, IMO. But I agree that it
makes more sense to add the time to the game clock, in fact
I had this one wrong on the test until Chuck corrected me.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by DrakeM
but this isn't necessarily the time on the game clock when the shot clock goes off.

Whoops - should have clarified that (really the whole post needs clarification - maybe I should stop posting when I'm tired.)

I was trying to say that the time of the horn may not be the time of the violation.

For example:
Game :03 Shot :01 - ball released
Game :02 Shot :00 - shot clock buzzer
Game :01 Shot :00 - ball misses rim
Game :00 Shot :00 - game clock horn

The violation cannot occur until it is clear that the shot will not hit the rim (for all we know, there could be a blast of air from the AC or an earthquake could cause the basket to move). There was no violation at :02, so to reset the clock to 2 seconds gives B an extra second to shoot and score.

[DrakeM]

I see your point,but it also makes sense to me that
the violation DOES occur if the criteria have not been met prior to the buzzer, even if the ACTUAL violation does not occur until 1 or 2 seconds after. Reset the game clock!;D

[DrakeM]

Ok. SO I'm rusty on my smilies!

[Hawks Coach]

I am curious about the pro rule. Is it only applied to an end of period situation? Or do you always reset the game clock to correspond with where the shot clock expired, rather than where the whistle blew for the violation? If the whole game is done by the latter rule, it seems odd to change just for the end of the period. I am of the opinion that the violation occurs when the shot misses the rim and the ref blows play dead, not when the shot clock expires. But I am of a stronger opinion that whatever happens for 99% of the game should happen for the end of period situation.

[DrakeM]

Pro rules, if possession starts at 3:24, violation is at 3:00. no matter when the violation is "recognized", the clock is reset to 24 seconds after possession began.