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-   -   .3 Foul Question (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/60331-3-foul-question.html)

Indianaref Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 711660)
New twist. What if we add this to 5.2.5 SITUATION C: The ball doesn't go through A's basket, but instead B4 commits basket interference?
I would say that the ball was dead at the common foul, so, no BI.

mbyron Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 711660)
New twist. What if we add this to 5.2.5 SITUATION C: The ball doesn't go through A's basket, but instead B4 commits basket interference?
I'm not going to say this is impossible, but it's so highly improbable that we can safely ignore it. The ball becomes dead at the horn, since the throw toward the basket is not a try. Since there's only 0.3 on the clock, whatever B4 does is almost certainly done after the ball is dead.

mbyron Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianaref (Post 711665)
I would say that the ball was dead at the common foul, so, no BI.
I read BM's case as suggesting a violation instead of a foul.

Indianaref Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 711670)
I read BM's case as suggesting a violation instead of a foul.
Oh, my bad, then my answer is found in post #17.

Adam Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:25am
I would say it becomes dead as soon as the try is released, or the horn blows, whichever happens first.

mbyron Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianaref (Post 711672)
Oh, my bad, then my answer is found in post #17.
So, now you're accusing me of plagiarism?!? :D

Jurassic Referee Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 711631)
Disagree. Nothing says A1 can't start the shooting motion in that amount of time.
Agree IF the shooting motion is a tap. The player can be fouled in the act of tapping and be awarded 2 shots.

All doubters see NFHS rules 4-41-1,5&6 and case book play 5.2.5SitB

just another ref Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 711689)
Agree IF the shooting motion is a tap. The player can be fouled in the act of tapping and be awarded 2 shots.

All doubters see NFHS rules 4-41-1,5&6 and case book play 5.2.5SitB
Question referred specifically to a player catching the ball. Tap was not an option.

Camron Rust Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 711692)
Question referred specifically to a player catching the ball. Tap was not an option.
Someone might judge that the player was trying to tap the ball when fouled but grabbed it as a result of getting fouled. Hmmm. :eek:

Adam Mon Jan 03, 2011 01:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 711702)
Someone might judge that the player was trying to tap the ball when fouled but grabbed it as a result of getting fouled. Hmmm. :eek:
or as a result of imminent contact?

bob jenkins Mon Jan 03, 2011 01:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 711705)
or as a result of imminent contact?
That doesn't matter because the "act of tapping" doesn't start until the ball is touched.

IMO, with .3 left, if the player is trying to tap, s/he will tap and not catch the ball no matter what the contact.

If it's a catch, then it's a common foul and not a shooting foul.

BktBallRef Mon Jan 03, 2011 01:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 711663)
If it hadn't been for the case play, which states "A5 cannot score a goal and is not considered in the act of shooting," I would maintain my opinion. Nothing in the rule itself says he can't be in the act of shooting, only that he can't score. "May not ...try for a goal" is up to interpretation. However, the case play makes it pretty clear.

So, apparently, it can get a lot clearer than 5-2-5. In fact, it does in 5.2.5C.
Snaq, the rule says, "...a player may not gain control of the ball and try for a field goal. "

He can't try for goal equals he can't shoot.

If he can't shoot, he can't be in the act of shooting.

Seems pretty clear to me.

Jurassic Referee Mon Jan 03, 2011 02:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 711692)
Question referred specifically to a player catching the ball. Tap was not an option.
That's got nuthin' to do with Snaq's statement. Snaq said "Nothing says A can't start the shooting motion in that amount of time.". That statement is true IF the shooting motion is a tap. It isn't true if the shooting motion is a try.

26 Year Gap Mon Jan 03, 2011 02:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spence (Post 711591)
.3 seconds left. A1 catches the lob throw-in and is immediately fouled.

Do I ignore the foul unless I determine it to be flagrant or intentional? Is the ball dead as soon as it's deemed that A1 caught the ball instead of tapping it?
This is the original post. We observe but do not pretend we are Kreskin. Any answers to the OP must address that the ball was CAUGHT. Arguments about tapping, etc. are not germane to the original post. A thread that had A1 tapping instead of catching is an entirely different topic.

just another ref Mon Jan 03, 2011 03:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 711593)
If the foul happens after he releases a shot (assuming he caught it first), it's a dead ball contact situation (ignore or go with a T or flagrant).
The rule says they can't catch or shoot, it doesn't say they can't catch and be fouled trying to shoot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 711709)
That's got nuthin' to do with Snaq's statement. Snaq said "Nothing says A can't start the shooting motion in that amount of time.". That statement is true IF the shooting motion is a tap. It isn't true if the shooting motion is a try.
Actually it has everything to do with it. The fact that the ball had been caught was a given. The question was what could or could not happen next.


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