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centkyref Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef (Post 709268)
I think that most of your comments made to this coach were totally unprofessional. Most coaches in the country at all levels don't know that over and back rule/play that you had in your game. Being a smart a$$ usually has more cons than pros.

I'm gonna disagree here. In the sitch RookieDude diffused the situation with a little subtle humor to the point where the coach went from "eyes bugging out" and yelling to talking in a soft voice and smiling. I'd say the the Rook handled this deftly and with quite a bit skill. Can it be a potential minefield to use this type of humor in the situation? Absolutely! But Rook (at least in this sitch) had the interpersonal skills to pull it off and calm the waters with this particular coach. Totally unprofessional? NO WAY! He diffused a coach who could have gotten out of hand, without having to whack him, without a scene & the game moved on. I'd say this was handled completely professionally.

Rich Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef (Post 709268)
I think that most of your comments made to this coach were totally unprofessional. Most coaches in the country at all levels don't know that over and back rule/play that you had in your game. Being a smart a$$ usually has more cons than pros.

Matter of fact, I would prefer to see this backcourt violation stricken from the rules. It's *always* seen as a bad call by everyone, except the officials who actually know the rule. So change the rule.

While I don't normally try what RookieDude did in the first post (I just don't know enough coaches around here *that* well, even after 9 years in the state), I do laugh when I read the posts. I wouldn't hesitate to use such a comment in rec/AAU ball, if I worked rec/AAU ball.

PG_Ref Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 709210)
But there's no such thing as an intentional flagrant foul.

There should be. 4 shots plus the next 2 possessions ... That'll learn 'em :p

RookieDude Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:18am

Good feedback...good STFU's...good place to vent.

Thanks.

Indianaref Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:23am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 709317)
Matter of fact, I would prefer to see this backcourt violation stricken from the rules. It's *always* seen as a bad call by everyone, except the officials who actually know the rule. So change the rule.

I gonna disagree, respectfully. Let's quit screwing with the rules. Last to touch, first to touch response was all that was needed explained to the coach. I see this situation in the OP similar to an out of bounds play, although covered by a different set of rules.

GoodwillRef Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by centkyref (Post 709314)
I'm gonna disagree here. In the sitch RookieDude diffused the situation with a little subtle humor to the point where the coach went from "eyes bugging out" and yelling to talking in a soft voice and smiling. I'd say the the Rook handled this deftly and with quite a bit skill. Can it be a potential minefield to use this type of humor in the situation? Absolutely! But Rook (at least in this sitch) had the interpersonal skills to pull it off and calm the waters with this particular coach. Totally unprofessional? NO WAY! He diffused a coach who could have gotten out of hand, without having to whack him, without a scene & the game moved on. I'd say this was handled completely professionally.

Go a head and try this with every coach and see where that gets you. He got lucky...this time!

Adam Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef (Post 709346)
Go a head and try this with every coach and see where that gets you. He got lucky...this time!

It's definitely a choose your battle situation. Not every official can use it, and it can't be used on every coach. You have to have developed serious credibility with the coach for it to work. You have to have developed serious credibility with your assigners to even try it; in case it backfires.

Rich Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indianaref (Post 709344)
I gonna disagree, respectfully. Let's quit screwing with the rules. Last to touch, first to touch response was all that was needed explained to the coach. I see this situation in the OP similar to an out of bounds play, although covered by a different set of rules.

Screwing with the rules? 24 years in this racket, I can say that rule changes are minor and rare. But this rule is always seen as a "gotcha" rule by everyone.

I'd simply change it to this: If B causes end of player control in the frontcourt, it is not a violation for A to recover the ball in the backcourt.

Or something like that.

Easy.

Adam Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 709351)
Screwing with the rules? 24 years in this racket, I can say that rule changes are minor and rare. But this rule is always seen as a "gotcha" rule by everyone.

I'd simply change it to this: If B causes end of player control in the frontcourt, it is not a violation for A to recover the ball in the backcourt.

Or something like that.

Easy.

A slight tweak of the TC rule would accomplish it.

centkyref Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:59am

You're right...Won't work all the time
 
I agreed this approach can be a minefield. Like Snaqs said, you definitely have to pick your spots with this and knowing the audience is a must. Gotta be careful with this approach, but it can really work to diffuse a situation. Did Rook get lucky this time? Maybe, or maybe he already had a relationship with this coach that allowed him to use a little humor to calm things down. We just don't know.

RookieDude Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 709350)
It's definitely a choose your battle situation. Not every official can use it, and it can't be used on every coach. You have to have developed serious credibility with the coach for it to work. You have to have developed serious credibility with your assigners to even try it; in case it backfires.

Yep...

jTheUmp Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan (Post 709184)

'

His mechanics look good to me, but why is he wearing a collared shirt?

Back In The Saddle Wed Dec 22, 2010 02:22pm

I admit, I got a chuckle out of this.

I agree that it worked out for RD this time. Or so it seems. So far. The next time he works for this coach, it could still come back to bite him. If the coach fills out any kind of official eval or game report that mentions the exchange, if that is seen by "somebody", it could still come back to haunt him.

It was the coach that brought the conversation back onto a professional level by saying, "Hey, we need to get on the same page...we've been doing this a long time." Is there a way that RD could have gotten there, sans the wise a$$ remarks?

TheOracle Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:05am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 709350)
It's definitely a choose your battle situation. Not every official can use it, and it can't be used on every coach. You have to have developed serious credibility with the coach for it to work. You have to have developed serious credibility with your assigners to even try it; in case it backfires.

No amount of credibility can protect an official if unprofessional and antagonistic comments like this to a coach backfires, and someone who thinks they have that much is completely delusional. It may not be direct in all cases, but it never goes well for an official or his career. I'm embarrassed for the OP and anyone who really found it acceptable and amusing. Stories and jokes are one thing. Actually doing it is another.

WhistlesAndStripes Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui (Post 709175)
had a play the other night where B1 fouls A1 while shooting. Tweet! foul on A1. A1 is upset and cannon balls the ball he is holding off the backboard and it flys to other end of court. TWEET! T on A1. As I am reporting to table - Coach from B teams gets my attention and deadpans: "Hey ref - isn't that like double jepardy or something? I think you've gotta choose one or the other." I must have looked at him funny because he started waved his hand at me and started cracking up. Next the table informs me it's hthe kids 5th foul and coach is already sending a sub up. I later learned that in his day job he's a lawyer.

I handled that one all by myself.

I gotta say you have to eat this one. A1 had every right to be upset. B1 fouled A1, yet you called the foul on A1 instead of B1. :D


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