More like Mark P...
 

Forgive me for assuming some things here but...

Mark Padgett seems to be a fun loving, quick witted, smart a$$ official.

Nevadaref seems to be a "by the book", dry official, with no room for deviation.

Philosophically...somewhere between these two guys is where one might want to be as an official.

Now I realize that knowing the rule book does not make a good official,
but one cannot be a good official without knowing the rule book.

Having said that...as I get older and more experienced, I seem to want to be more of a smart a$$ to the coaches.

Just last night, I had a Coach complain about a "over and back" call that I made.

A1 had the ball in his frontcourt...A1 passed the ball to A2. B1 tipped the ball before it got to A2 and the ball bounced off of A2's knee and into the backcourt. A2 went to recover the ball. Tweet! Backcourt Violation!

Coach yelled, "How can that be...the defender deflected the ball!"
Partner explained the rule to him as we inbounded the ball.

Next time down the court, I get a foul on Coach A's big man. Coach A says... "How can that be a foul? You don't know what a foul is if that is one!"

Instead of whacking him, I simply go over and say, "Why should I listen to you? You didn't even know the backcourt rule."

His eyes bug out and he can't believe he has been talked to like that. He mentions something about being professional and goes on to say, "We are going to have a PROBLEM!"

I look at him, as the ball is being inbounded, and say, "How do you think that is going to work out for you?"

Two more times down the court and he quietly says to me, with a smile..."Hey, we need to get on the same page...we've been doing this a long time."

I said, "Coach, I forgot about it already."

Yeah, I shouldn't probably be saying these smart a$$ remarks...but, darn it...Padgett keeps giving me material here.

Not sure using the coach as a straight man is a good idea.

HEY - I resemble that remark! :p

Especially when you have no way of knowing if the coach actually is a straight man.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. :rolleyes:

Whack!
 

Girls 8G coach in a league game last Saturday night is upset about calls. Of course his girls never travel, never carry, never foul. By the second half he's just about out of control. He asks for and is granted a time out, and my partner and I hear him yell loudly enough for the entire gym/all parents to hear, "well girls it's us against the other team and these two idiots". My partner whacks him.

He's lucky, I'm Sicilian, to my family whacking is historically a more serious event.

ref3808...I'd be half tempted to toss him over that comment.

Half? If he called me an idiot, he's in the parking lot.

1) Yup, but you'd better know your audience too when you're making a retort. And when in doubt, STFU.

3) A-freaking-men!!!! Well said.

Does this bus stop at the river? If it doesn't there'll be a very big splash.
 

... sitting in a cold bus.

Great advice. Being a wise guy is great for AAU or little kid leagues, because they are always hurting for guys. Being a wise guy to a HS or college coach is asking for trouble. Officials always, always, always have to be ultra-professional and take the high road in all situations, including the smackdown in Florida last week (which they appeared to have done well). It's hard to defend against a bench full of witnesses and/or a film if things go wrong, and that is exactly what the supervisor can and will be confronted with if it goes bad. I've seen a few careers ended prematurely by veteran officials acting unprofessionally towards coaches and crowds.

I believe that the coach-official relationship is critical to a good game. Doesn't mean you have to take his crap but OTOH, we shouldn't be dishing it out either. The only time I have ever said anything to a coach that was less than professional was in an AAU game and it was a mild statement. I told him that if it was okay with him, I will let him coach and he can let me officiate. Otherwise, I try to show the coach some respect. If we miss a call and it is obvious and the coach says something about it later, I simply tell him "you know coach, you are right - we simply missed that one Wasn't on purpose but sometimes you miss a call. We'll take that as a lesson learned"

I have a good report with the coaches. I know they don't think every call I make is great but I don't get a lot of flack from them either. They know I do my best to call it consistent on both side of the ball. I treat them with respect and expect the same in return.

OTOH, I have no problem giving a coach a T if he deserves it.

For the record, as others have said, we cannot endorse this comment.

Off the record:


+1

Mark would have hated my game tonight....
 

BJV game tonight. Score tied 48-48 with less than a minute to go. I called an intentional flagrant foul on #21 of the V. #4 of the H team misses the shots. They get the ball back and then they missed the last shot..... Game eventually went to double OT.

I tried Mark, really I did! :o

again off record +1

I've often thought this but never verbalized it.

In JV game prior to our varsity tonight heard coach yelling at officials wanting travels calls. All you heard was him yelling "travel, travel, travel" etc. JV official looks at him and told him to concentrate on a rule he might understand like 3 seconds.

Was glad I was not drinking anything or it would have sprayed everyone around me! Wouldn't advise those kind of comments BUT it WAS funny!

My personal favorite, never actually spoken out loud, but I think it frequently. In response to any of the "5 against 7" "hometown officiating" "call it on both ends" line of comments, the following might be appropriate.

"If you already think I'm calling against your team, why in the world would you make a remark like that and piss me off?"

And you couldn't find disconcertion?

"Does your car have a radio, coach? You can listen to the rest of the game out there."

Yep, he called you idiots and called you cheaters. He's done. Although from the description, I'd like to think he'd have been dealt with (in some way) much sooner.

had a play the other night where B1 fouls A1 while shooting. Tweet! foul on A1. A1 is upset and cannon balls the ball he is holding off the backboard and it flys to other end of court. TWEET! T on A1. As I am reporting to table - Coach from B teams gets my attention and deadpans: "Hey ref - isn't that like double jepardy or something? I think you've gotta choose one or the other." I must have looked at him funny because he started waved his hand at me and started cracking up. Next the table informs me it's hthe kids 5th foul and coach is already sending a sub up. I later learned that in his day job he's a lawyer.

I handled that one all by myself.

At least he wasn't going for the Daily Double. [insert BillyMac image here]

Well, a couple of years ago, I had a coach Question my "integrity" . He said,

"Stop cheating my kids"


I said, "Coach, are you questioning my integrity?"

He said "Stop cheating my Kids!"

I said " Coach are YOU questioning MY integrity?"

He said, "All I am saying is stop CHEATING my kids"

Whack.

I do believe he was questioning my integrity.

YouTube - High-Stress REF

You're going to tease us with that and not share what he did? :D

There. That looks much better.

+1. No brainer. He called you a cheater. If he's dumb enough to say it twice, he's in the parking lot with the idiot that called you an idiot.

Which sport has an intentional flagrant foul?

For the record, there's no such thing. You can have a:

intentional personal foul
intentional technical foul
flagrant personal foul
flagrant technical foul

But there's no such thing as an intentional flagrant foul.

Acknowledged. thanks.

Actually, I did call that earlier in the night...... first time this yr.

I think that most of your comments made to this coach were totally unprofessional. Most coaches in the country at all levels don't know that over and back rule/play that you had in your game. Being a smart a$$ usually has more cons than pros.

I'm gonna disagree here. In the sitch RookieDude diffused the situation with a little subtle humor to the point where the coach went from "eyes bugging out" and yelling to talking in a soft voice and smiling. I'd say the the Rook handled this deftly and with quite a bit skill. Can it be a potential minefield to use this type of humor in the situation? Absolutely! But Rook (at least in this sitch) had the interpersonal skills to pull it off and calm the waters with this particular coach. Totally unprofessional? NO WAY! He diffused a coach who could have gotten out of hand, without having to whack him, without a scene & the game moved on. I'd say this was handled completely professionally.

Matter of fact, I would prefer to see this backcourt violation stricken from the rules. It's *always* seen as a bad call by everyone, except the officials who actually know the rule. So change the rule.

While I don't normally try what RookieDude did in the first post (I just don't know enough coaches around here *that* well, even after 9 years in the state), I do laugh when I read the posts. I wouldn't hesitate to use such a comment in rec/AAU ball, if I worked rec/AAU ball.

There should be. 4 shots plus the next 2 possessions ... That'll learn 'em :p

Good feedback...good STFU's...good place to vent.

Thanks.

I gonna disagree, respectfully. Let's quit screwing with the rules. Last to touch, first to touch response was all that was needed explained to the coach. I see this situation in the OP similar to an out of bounds play, although covered by a different set of rules.

Go a head and try this with every coach and see where that gets you. He got lucky...this time!

It's definitely a choose your battle situation. Not every official can use it, and it can't be used on every coach. You have to have developed serious credibility with the coach for it to work. You have to have developed serious credibility with your assigners to even try it; in case it backfires.

Screwing with the rules? 24 years in this racket, I can say that rule changes are minor and rare. But this rule is always seen as a "gotcha" rule by everyone.

I'd simply change it to this: If B causes end of player control in the frontcourt, it is not a violation for A to recover the ball in the backcourt.

Or something like that.

Easy.

A slight tweak of the TC rule would accomplish it.

You're right...Won't work all the time
 

I agreed this approach can be a minefield. Like Snaqs said, you definitely have to pick your spots with this and knowing the audience is a must. Gotta be careful with this approach, but it can really work to diffuse a situation. Did Rook get lucky this time? Maybe, or maybe he already had a relationship with this coach that allowed him to use a little humor to calm things down. We just don't know.

Yep...

'

His mechanics look good to me, but why is he wearing a collared shirt?

I admit, I got a chuckle out of this.

I agree that it worked out for RD this time. Or so it seems. So far. The next time he works for this coach, it could still come back to bite him. If the coach fills out any kind of official eval or game report that mentions the exchange, if that is seen by "somebody", it could still come back to haunt him.

It was the coach that brought the conversation back onto a professional level by saying, "Hey, we need to get on the same page...we've been doing this a long time." Is there a way that RD could have gotten there, sans the wise a$$ remarks?

No amount of credibility can protect an official if unprofessional and antagonistic comments like this to a coach backfires, and someone who thinks they have that much is completely delusional. It may not be direct in all cases, but it never goes well for an official or his career. I'm embarrassed for the OP and anyone who really found it acceptable and amusing. Stories and jokes are one thing. Actually doing it is another.

I gotta say you have to eat this one. A1 had every right to be upset. B1 fouled A1, yet you called the foul on A1 instead of B1. :D

Agreed
 

+1

For you old timers......
 

The defensive player actually launched himself to hit the offensive player similar to a nice Jack Lambert or Mike Singletary like whack! I've never seen anything like it on the court before.

I just got a copy of the report my Association sent to the school and state (also a first for me).

I agree. It's fun to take pokes at participants in a game and tell fantastic tales of how we "put them in their place." But fact is, as the games gets more out of control, the more we need to be in control. The rowdier the fans are, the more we need to be less rowdy. The crazier a coach gets, the more controlled we need to be in our efforts.

Not trying to take the fun out of giving a "howler monkey" a zinger, but we all know it is a slippery slope. Be carerful :)