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-   -   Bad Backcourt Call by Partner. What to do? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/60221-bad-backcourt-call-partner-what-do.html)

Welpe Tue Dec 21, 2010 05:27pm

I just figured he had a "Bad backcourt call by partner" also happen this season. :)

JugglingReferee Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by refnuts (Post 709012)
Partner as T rules backcourt on an inbounds pass. A1 passes to A2 who jumped from the frontcourt caught the ball midair and landed in the backcourt.

I'm the L. Partner makes call. What to do?

Partner has 30+ years in and clearly has his mind on 7pm game.

Do you step in and ask him about his call or leave it be?

I had to answer to the coach who just had that call against him.

"Coach I didn't have a great look at that play from where I was."

Coach, "I knew you were going to say that!"

Approach him before anything else happens and remind him of the rule. It's his call, and hopefully changes it.

Scratch85 Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by refnuts (Post 709012)
Partner as T rules backcourt on an inbounds pass. A1 passes to A2 who jumped from the frontcourt caught the ball midair and landed in the backcourt.

I'm the L. Partner makes call. What to do?

Partner has 30+ years in and clearly has his mind on 7pm game.

Do you step in and ask him about his call or leave it be?

I had to answer to the coach who just had that call against him.

"Coach I didn't have a great look at that play from where I was."

Coach, "I knew you were going to say that!"

If the situation doesn't resolve itself quickly and you find yourself in the situation of "needing" to go to your partner. I would go to my partner and say something along the lines of "Coach is asking so I am making sure, I did not see a player touch the throw-in." Or something like " I didn't see anything that stopped the throw-in exception." If my partner sticks with backcourt violation, I am staying with him.

If my partner goes with a call after we talk, I am not taking that moment (during a game) to argue rules. We can talk later.

This will probably bring criticism but I am not a big fan of changing my partners call. At least one of the 3 B's must be met here. It must be needed!

Adam Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scratch85 (Post 709166)
If the situation doesn't resolve itself quickly and you find yourself in the situation of "needing" to go to your partner. I would go to my partner and say something along the lines of "Coach is asking so I am making sure, I did not see a player touch the throw-in." Or something like " I didn't see anything that stopped the throw-in exception." If my partner sticks with backcourt violation, I am staying with him.

If my partner goes with a call after we talk, I am not taking that moment (during a game) to argue rules. We can talk later.

This will probably bring criticism but I am not a big fan of changing my partners call. At least one of the 3 B's must be met here. It must be needed!

You can't change a partner's call without his consent. Period.

just another ref Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 709179)
You can't change a partner's call without his consent. Period.

You can't change a partner's call whether he consents or not. You can give him information and let him change his own call.


Or drop his call entirely. Let's say you call block and he calls charge.......

Adam Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 709183)
You can't change a partner's call whether he consents or not. You can give him information and let him change his own call.

Semantics, I think. You certainly can make the change if he agrees. I would prefer I hadn't, but I've done it.

And, for the record, his agreement can sometimes be nothing more than silent acquiescence. In this case, you may get the call right but run the risk of becoming the headlights to your partner's deer.

Jurassic Referee Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 709189)
Semantics, I think. You certainly can make the change if he agrees. I would prefer I hadn't, but I've done it.

Not really. The idea behind letting one of your partners change their own call is credibility. If you do it for him, you just destroyed their credibility.

Scratch85 Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 709179)
You can't change a partner's call without his consent. Period.


I agree. I really didn't mean "change a partners call" as you as you are referring to it.

What I really meant is that I am not a fan of forcing my will on my partner at a point in the game that is not terribly significant. And considering that I may not have all the information that my partner has about said violation, I am not 100% certain that my interpretation/application/judgment of the violation in question is true, I will not use my super powers to persuade my partner to change his call as I see fit. :cool:

I'm just sayin'

Adam Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 709192)
Not really. The idea behind letting one of your partners change their own call is credibility. If you do it for him, you just destroyed their credibility.

Agreed, and that's the reason I wish I'd done it differently last year. It's the only time I've ever done it. The rest of the game went well, but I kept thinking of how it could have gone wrong at that point.

BktBallRef Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judtech (Post 709050)
To be the jerk in the room....(J/k but just saying ;))
It seems to me you were ball watching. If you are in the L you would be the furthest from the play. I'd let it go until I had a chance to ask them about it later. And it can be done very easily at half/end of quarter or end of game. As you review your game just ask them what they had on the back court violation. Tell him, and he probably already knows, that the coach had a question about it and you didnt "have a good look".

I disagree. You don't have to be ball watching to be wide enough to see what's going on with the throw-in. I'm offering my partner help if he needs it.

Adam Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:48pm

I had one in a JV game a couple of years ago. Start of the quarter, I'm lead. All the players up high for the throw-in play. A2 breaks towards the BC and receives the pass while airborne, landing in the BC. T calls BC. Just as I start to head towards him to confer, he waves me in to talk. He knew immediately. Quick conference, he declares IW, and we move on.

GoodwillRef Wed Dec 22, 2010 06:52am

"Partner has 30+ years in and clearly has his mind on 7pm game."

Why do we assume that if our partner has been working longer than us that he/she knows the rules better than we do?

just another ref Wed Dec 22, 2010 01:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef (Post 709269)
"Partner has 30+ years in and clearly has his mind on 7pm game."

Why do we assume that if our partner has been working longer than us that he/she knows the rules better than we do?

On the contrary, the additional time in some cases allows misconceptions to be more deeply rooted.

Bishopcolle Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:08am

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Pennsylvania Coach (Post 709069)
You had the above play happen, except that it was a tipped ball? If so, that's a violation as I understand it. The tip ends the throw-in. So A1 inbounds, B1 tips, A2 jumps from frontcourt, catches the ball in the air, and lands in the backcourt? Violation.

On A's throwin, it doesn't matter if A or B tips the throwin pass, and A recovers in the backcourt. There is no team control on the throwin, and a tip by either team doesn't establish control, so the recovery in the backcourt by A does not constitute a violation....

just another ref Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishopcolle (Post 709600)
On A's throwin, it doesn't matter if A or B tips the throwin pass, and A recovers in the backcourt. There is no team control on the throwin, and a tip by either team doesn't establish control, so the recovery in the backcourt by A does not constitute a violation....

A tip does not establish control, but a tip does end the throw-in. If the ball is tipped by either team, then caught by A1 who jumped from the frontcourt and lands in the backcourt, this is a violation.


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