Bad Backcourt Call by Partner. What to do?
 

Partner as T rules backcourt on an inbounds pass. A1 passes to A2 who jumped from the frontcourt caught the ball midair and landed in the backcourt.

I'm the L. Partner makes call. What to do?

Partner has 30+ years in and clearly has his mind on 7pm game.

Do you step in and ask him about his call or leave it be?

I had to answer to the coach who just had that call against him.

"Coach I didn't have a great look at that play from where I was."

Coach, "I knew you were going to say that!"

In general, if it's a rules issue I try to fix it. If it's a judgment issue, I don't.

On this play, it's tough to go out there. Coach should try to ask partner to get help.

If he made that call, you stop the game, go over to him and tell him (loudly) that he's wrong. If he gives you any crap, tell him you have a rulebook in your bag and you'll bring it over and look it up in front of everyone. Tell him that if he's right, you'll give him $100 but if he's wrong, he has to go out into the parking lot and wash your car. Ask him if he wants to make that bet. :cool:

Was that helpful?

Well isn't the player considered being in the front court since its the last spot he left from?

Well isn't the player considered being in the front court since its the last spot he left from?

Indeed however since this is during a throw-in, 9-9-3 applies.

Got it

See NFHS Rule 9-1-3.

Just my opinion, refnuts, I'd talk politely with my partner right there. If the shoe were on the other foot, and my partner saw something differently, I'd want him to talk to me. I tell every partner in pre-game that he has an open invitation to discuss any call with me right away. We should care more about getting it right than getting a little egg on our faces.

I had this happen earlier this season, except it was a tipped ball on a throw-in with no frontcourt control that ended up in the backcourt.

I hit my whistle to get my partner's attention, went to my partner, talked to him, the light went on, and he declared an IW and we played on. He thanked me at halftime.

Of course, my partner that night is one of my best friends and I am completely comfortable doing that (and with him doing that) at any time. It's a different dynamic for the OP. Maybe it shouldn't be, but is.

To be the jerk in the room....(J/k but just saying ;))
It seems to me you were ball watching. If you are in the L you would be the furthest from the play. I'd let it go until I had a chance to ask them about it later. And it can be done very easily at half/end of quarter or end of game. As you review your game just ask them what they had on the back court violation. Tell him, and he probably already knows, that the coach had a question about it and you didnt "have a good look".
NOW, if YOU were the T and THEY were the L and they blew a back court violation, I would be more prone to stop play and have a conversation with them. In fact have done so on a couple of occasions with "newbies". It does make a great teaching point on several levels. 1) As I stated earlier, I ask them why they were looking at the instead of the other 6-8 players on the floor. 2) Review what constitutes a back court violation and 3) although rare, admit that I probably made an error:p
Hope that didnt sound too jerky!!

You're ASSuming the thowin was not on the lead's line. If it was, the lead SHOULD be watching the ball until it is touched.

You had the above play happen, except that it was a tipped ball? If so, that's a violation as I understand it. The tip ends the throw-in. So A1 inbounds, B1 tips, A2 jumps from frontcourt, catches the ball in the air, and lands in the backcourt? Violation.

This was the exact play for which I went to my partner. I was lead, administering the throw-in. Ball went into the BC where the throwing team gained control. Partner called BC. My only regret is that I didn't have her announce the IW.

Not to speak for Rich but the way I read his post, there was a throw in, a tip by a player in his/her team's front court and then a subsequent touch by the same team in the back court.

Maybe, but he said "I had this happen" so I thought I'd jump in

I just figured he had a "Bad backcourt call by partner" also happen this season. :)

Approach him before anything else happens and remind him of the rule. It's his call, and hopefully changes it.

If the situation doesn't resolve itself quickly and you find yourself in the situation of "needing" to go to your partner. I would go to my partner and say something along the lines of "Coach is asking so I am making sure, I did not see a player touch the throw-in." Or something like " I didn't see anything that stopped the throw-in exception." If my partner sticks with backcourt violation, I am staying with him.

If my partner goes with a call after we talk, I am not taking that moment (during a game) to argue rules. We can talk later.

This will probably bring criticism but I am not a big fan of changing my partners call. At least one of the 3 B's must be met here. It must be needed!

You can't change a partner's call without his consent. Period.

You can't change a partner's call whether he consents or not. You can give him information and let him change his own call.


Or drop his call entirely. Let's say you call block and he calls charge.......

Semantics, I think. You certainly can make the change if he agrees. I would prefer I hadn't, but I've done it.

And, for the record, his agreement can sometimes be nothing more than silent acquiescence. In this case, you may get the call right but run the risk of becoming the headlights to your partner's deer.

Not really. The idea behind letting one of your partners change their own call is credibility. If you do it for him, you just destroyed their credibility.

I agree. I really didn't mean "change a partners call" as you as you are referring to it.

What I really meant is that I am not a fan of forcing my will on my partner at a point in the game that is not terribly significant. And considering that I may not have all the information that my partner has about said violation, I am not 100% certain that my interpretation/application/judgment of the violation in question is true, I will not use my super powers to persuade my partner to change his call as I see fit. :cool:

I'm just sayin'

Agreed, and that's the reason I wish I'd done it differently last year. It's the only time I've ever done it. The rest of the game went well, but I kept thinking of how it could have gone wrong at that point.

I disagree. You don't have to be ball watching to be wide enough to see what's going on with the throw-in. I'm offering my partner help if he needs it.

I had one in a JV game a couple of years ago. Start of the quarter, I'm lead. All the players up high for the throw-in play. A2 breaks towards the BC and receives the pass while airborne, landing in the BC. T calls BC. Just as I start to head towards him to confer, he waves me in to talk. He knew immediately. Quick conference, he declares IW, and we move on.

"Partner has 30+ years in and clearly has his mind on 7pm game."

Why do we assume that if our partner has been working longer than us that he/she knows the rules better than we do?

On the contrary, the additional time in some cases allows misconceptions to be more deeply rooted.

On A's throwin, it doesn't matter if A or B tips the throwin pass, and A recovers in the backcourt. There is no team control on the throwin, and a tip by either team doesn't establish control, so the recovery in the backcourt by A does not constitute a violation....

A tip does not establish control, but a tip does end the throw-in. If the ball is tipped by either team, then caught by A1 who jumped from the frontcourt and lands in the backcourt, this is a violation.

And that a point that could be a subject of the "if you could change one rule" thread.

I still think that is not right, to respectfully disagree. There has to be control established before the backcourt kicks in....and the tip, while it ends the throwin, does not establish control. If A2 catches the tipped ball in the air, and lands in backcourt, no backcourt violation. If A2 throws it (controlled) into backcourt to A3 then you have control and a backcourt violation. I believe this to be true, due to my training about the necessity of control first, but I can be convinced otherwise (and should be), if that is the case....thanks for your thoughts....

9.9.1D is this exact play. I don't like it either, but by rule, it is a violation.

Whoa...you're right! Thanks...it protects only the first player who touches..9.9.1E shows how it protects the first player only...thanks for the clarification...before I screw it up on the court....

I'm not sure what's so hard about this. Don't these 2 statements contradict each other? Once A2 catches the ball, control is established, by rule, and A2's court location is also established, by rule. Definite violation.

Also, to me at least, the throw-in exception makes sense in that the exception applies only during a throw-in. And, according to the rule, the throw-in ends when the ball is legally touched in-bounds, so it makes sense the exception ends at that moment as well.

No, I agree with all of that, now knowing that the rule protects only the first to tip. A2 catching a tipped ball is NOT protected and hence a backcourt violation occurs. If the ball tips from his hand (first to touch), that is not considered control, and he is protected into the backcourt without a violation. Again, I am learning this application, but that is the way I read the casebook and rule book.

Right result, wrong reason.

When A2 leaps and catches the ball, he has established player and team control. If he jumped from the FC, then he has established FC location along with team control. The exception does not say control isn't established, it just says he can land in the BC. It's an exception, but control is still established.