Throwing Elbows in FED

[Spence]

I know I can call a violation for swinging an elbow even if there is no contact.

I'm not 100% clear on my options for elbows that make contact.

1. A1 has the ball and is closely guarded by B1 on the perimeter. A1 while holding the ball and moving it from one side to the other hits B1 in the chin. I deem it accidental. Call? PC?

2. A1 grabs a rebound and B1 and B2 are swarming him. While holding the ball with 2 hands he swings his elbows back and forth and nails B1. Call? Intentional? Flagrant?

[JRutledge]

If they have the ball you can always call a PC foul. If you think the contact rises to something else, you can call an intentional foul or a flagrant foul as well even if they have the ball. It is completely a judgment called on your part, but you have options.

Peace

[Spence]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If they have the ball you can always call a PC foul. If you think the contact rises to something else, you can call an intentional foul or a flagrant foul as well even if they have the ball. It is completely a judgment called on your part, but you have options.

Peace

Thanks, JR.

I guess I'm having trouble picturing a scenario where I deem it intentional but not flagrant.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Spence

Thanks, JR.

I guess I'm having trouble picturing a scenario where I deem it intentional but not flagrant.

To me, if it's aimed at the head, flagrant.

If it's indiscriminately thrown and hits the head; at least intentional depending on the level of force.

[slow whistle]

This is such a tough one - can you think of another play that could in theory range from a block on the defense to an intentional foul on the offense based on such a thin level of judgement? Defender steps into vertical space of offensive player and catches an elbow in the chin, block or no call? Defender is vertical and offensive player catches defender in the chin, intentional foul? This is why I would tend towards the PC rather than intentional unless I deemed that it truly was an intentional act or the contact was extremely severe.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

This is such a tough one - can you think of another play that could in theory range from a block on the defense to an intentional foul on the offense based on such a thin level of judgement? Defender steps into vertical space of offensive player and catches an elbow in the chin, block or no call? Defender is vertical and offensive player catches defender in the chin, intentional foul? This is why I would tend towards the PC rather than intentional unless I deemed that it truly was an intentional act or the contact was extremely severe.

In a HS game, I would have to see either an obvious indication of intent (e.g., player looks over his shoulder, locates his opponent, then swings at him) or a non-basketball or dangerous play (e.g., a kid with Camron's threatening elbows stance begins swinging them in traffic and makes contact) before I would consider more than a PC foul.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by back in the saddle

in a hs game, i would have to see either an obvious indication of intent (e.g., player looks over his shoulder, locates his opponent, then swings at him) or a non-basketball or dangerous play (e.g., a kid with camron's threatening elbows stance begins swinging them in traffic and makes contact) before i would consider more than a pc foul.

+1