Official Attacked
 

I'm new to the forum and first time poster. This attack occurred last night in a VB game with officials in an adjoining association. Truely amazing, YouTube link below

YouTube - Ref gets tossed by Desoto player

<iframe width="640" height="480" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/AgxjZIN2PAE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Wow! HC and AC got there quick to remove the perp. so that was good in spite of player behavior.

Unfortunate....

Not sure about Florida's laws, but here that is a Class C Felony and the kid would be arrested and spend the rest of the night in jail, to be arraigned and tried at a later date.

Wow. Talk about a temper tantrum. Hopefully the official wasn't injured.

If you all don't mind, let's dissect this a bit as there is a lot going on. First there is at least a common or possibly intentional foul. Then the calling official assesses what appears to be a flagrant technical on the player. After that we have at least two more flagrant technicals on the same player.

My thoughts are we assess all fouls against the player without any indirects to the head coach and the other team is shooting at least 6 shots with the lane cleared.

What I'm wondering is if you all would consider ending the game at this point as this crew did?

It also gets me to thinking as to what I would do in this official's situation. I think he was clearly surprised but I'm not so sure I would just stand there either. Hard to say from the comfort of my computer screen.

Not sure what the original call was, but it looks like a TC foul followed by a technical foul followed by a flagrant (I'd likely go with 1) felony foul.

As for ending the game? Probably. Depending on what happened before, it could be a definitely thing. But now you've got officials (at least one) who are emotionally shaken (I know I'd be).

And what other response would you envision yourself taking? If it involves physical retaliation, be prepared to be arrested yourself and/or face possible lawsuits in the future.

You are the adult on the scene...you will - like it or not - be held to a higher standard than the juvenile involved.

So much for "hurt feelings".... how about a hurt face??? :eek:

I was thinking more along the lines of creating or keeping distance between myself and the player to try and descalate the situation. Obviously retaliation is not an option and it is certainly not descalating the situation.

I agree that as the adult I am held to the higher standard, but I also reserve the right to protect myself from physical injury against a "kid" that has six inches on me and is physically stronger than I am.

My understanding is that the kid was arrested, still learning more as this develops

The "create or keep distance" is pretty much your best course of action. As far as the right to protect yourself - all I can say is that the courts in this great country sometimes have a different view of that right than we do. As a teacher, I learned long ago to never use force against a student attacking me. About the only time I can legally use physical force is if it will prevent harm to another student. That was the only acceptable defense in the situation I found myself in a number of years ago.

Something similar happened to my partner and he couldn't consider ending the game. Not because of physical conditions, though the attack had been more violent than that, but the stress on everybody had been very heavy.

It was reported in the papers, because it happened in a wheelchair basketball game. :eek::(

Ciao

I like where you're going with this. Player was wrong, no two ways about it. The official handled his business with class. Doesn't mean there isn't something valuable to be learned.

Here in Oregon, assault on a sports official is automatically a Class A misdemeanor and will be prosecuted. Depending on the severity of the assault, it may rise to the level of a felony. This was a law passed a few years ago here. At the time it was going through our legislature, I testified in committee in its favor as a member of NASO. I keep a copy of the law in my bag. We also have a law here in this state that if you are directed to leave a facility by a sports official and you refuse to leave, you may be arrested for trespassing.

First of all, I have no idea how I'd react in that situation.

Second, I noticed that between the foul and free throws that preceded the incident that the non-calling officials didn't seem to be watching the players. That seems like a mistake, though perhaps an inconsequential one. OTOH, it may also be an indication that there wasn't anything obvious "brewing" and that what happened really came out of the blue.

Florida Law-
 

Hey all,
Sad to watch that video! I did a quick google search on Florida law pertaining to assault on a sports official and here is what I found.

Fl. Stat. § 784. 081

Assault or battery against a sports official actively participating in an athletic contest or immediately after and the actor knows or has reason to know the victim’s identity, position, or employment

When the underlying crime is:

• Aggravated battery: 1st degree felony—up to 30 years in prison, up to $ 10,000 fine, or both

• Aggravated assault: 2nd degree felony—up to 15 years in prison, up to $ 10,000 fine, or both

• Battery: 3rd degree felony—up to five years in prison, up to $ 5,000 fine, or both

• Assault: 1st degree misdemeanor—up to one year in prison, up to $ 1,000 fine, or both

Referee, umpire, linesman, or similar official known by another title, registered or a member of a local, state, regional, or national organization that educates and trains sports officials

Here in Southern California the player who is ejected must be suspended for their team's next scheduled contest. California Penal Code 243.8 states that the sentence for assaulting a sports official is either a fine not to exceed $2,000 or 1 year in county jail or both.

I would hope that the school suspends him for the remainder of this season and all of the next one if he has eligibility remaining.

If assaulting a game official is not making "a travesty of the game", which is the grounds for forfeit, then I don't know what would be.

Game over, 100 times out of 100.

I'm a pretty forgiving guy but IMHO his scholastic playing career should be OVER. Regardless of how many years of eligibility he has left.

I'm fine with the intentional on the first push, then a flagrant technical when he pushed the defender after the first whistle. It's a non-basketball play and kid obviously is an escalator and is just a big problem, dump him. I don't see the need to pile on more flagrant T's, the player is disqualified after the first one. There is no need for any indirects if you don't pile on the extras when he's already dq'd. As for ending the game, he!! nah! That punk ain't getting away with taking the game away from the rest of the players, fans, etc...get his a$$ outta there, regain your composure and play on. (assuming this was an isolated incident of course). ;)

You would not issue at least one technical foul for assaulting the official? I find that to be rather interesting.

I understand where you're coming from, but you've given a flagrant, he's gone. Let the law deal with him on assault, you've done what you can, you tossed him. I doubt anyone would have a problem with your technicals, but I just don't really see their point. There is nothing in high school that says you can't assess additional penalties after a player is thrown. In the NBA, you've got a flagrant 1 (basically the same as a hs intentional) on the first foul, then a flagrant T. Nothing else could be assessed after he's ejected. High school doesn't say you can't, neither does it say you should. ;)

I would. I've issued a flagrant to an already DQ'd player before. And in this case, you wouldn't have to worry about any indirects because all the action occurred before the player could be notified he was DQd.

The more I think about this, there's no way I'd continue this game under any circumstance. There's a police report to fill out.

Assuming for a moment that you're going to continue the game...

Would it benefit the game to assess additional Ts? I don't see how it would. Would the other team feel unfairly treated if you don't? I don't think they would. Would an indirect to the coach really be warranted, or useful? I don't think so.

What happened after the T was not only clearly outside the spirit and intent of the rules, but also outside the scope of the rules. There will be additional penalties, but they will come from authorities whose scope includes the kid's behavior.

Bottom line, IMHO if you're going to continue the game, administer what has been assessed and move on.

My first thought was no, you should just suspend the game at that point. My second thought however was no, Scrapper is 114% right. That act does merit a forfeit for that player's team. A mere suspension where that player's team could still win the game doesn't reflect the seriousness and severity of the act.

My first year officiating in 2007, at the end of the game for some reason I look back at a member of the losing team (I think I was looking for my partner cant remember), so the kid looks at me and says "WTF are you looking at" and throws his hands up. I had this grin/smirk on my face, thinking to myself is this young man serious, or perhaps it was because I never thought something like this would happen.

The coach was nearby, so I told him what went on and to handle the situation.

Not sure what my reaction would be if what happened in the video were to happen to me? Scary thought though and hope I am never in that situation.

With that being said if a player or parent approaches me outside in the parking lot, its on.

Totally agree with that. You don't know until you live it.

Disagree completely. You're letting that player get away with some of his vile actions. You're not formally penalizing him in any way for assaulting an official. Having said that, there's also no need imo to pile on any FT's. Call the game, get the hell outa there before anything else happens and take the score book into the dressing room with you. Detail what happened step-by-step on the score sheet and your reasons for forfeiting. Put down the score and time of the forfeit. If the league wants to continue on with that game later, hey, that's their decision. That one has to be a discussion between them and whomever you report to. You and your partners should also put in a full written report of the incident to your association/governing body. No doubt you'll be involved with police reports also, so get some facts on paper while they're still fresh in your mind.

And ask for a police escort when you're ready to leave.

It's nice to have balls, but it's also nice to know when you should use 'em. Leave the macho stuff to the kids.

JMO.

I remember a day when teachers were not afraid of the students or afraid of what might happen if they touched them...touch? Heck, Whack the he!! out of them with big ol paddles if their hands weren't enough.

I'm not saying those were "good ol' days"...but, somewhere between there and where we are now seems more reasonable.

I guess that's one of the reasons I got out of teaching, after just one year, at the age of 23.

Rocky sounds like he has a story (or two)...well, I have one I will share.

Once upon a time...there was this young 23 year old P.E. teacher/coach coming in from track practice with his Middle School kids. Some H.S. kids were milling around the outside Locker Room entrance. (The High School and Middle School were on the same grounds, as this was a small rural school in southern Idaho.)

Well, as the young teacher was getting ready to enter the building, a H.S. kid says, "Hey dude, what's up?"...and preceded to knock the baseball cap off the young teacher's head.

Young teacher saw red...grabbed the H.S. kid by the back of his collar and not very gently at all put his head on the pavement. The H.S. kid was then directed to "pick up my hat". After some time of feeling around on the ground for the hat...his cheek was against the pavement...he found it and handed the hat over to the young teacher. The young teacher must have still been seeing red because as soon as the young teacher had hat in hand, he gave the H.S. kid a good shove against a nearby car.

Probably not the best way to handle it...and for sure this young teacher had not been taught that in his College Education Methods class...but, you know what? That H.S. troublemaker (I guess he had a rep) was a perfect gentleman every time that young teacher saw him after that. It was Mr. this and Mr. that.

I know that story could have had all kinds of bad endings...but, lucky for this young teacher...nothing came of it.

Soooo, that young teacher could have been fired...Well, this ol' basketball offical might get fired if he thinks he is in physical danger and reacts accordingly. i.e. defending one's self.

Arrested?...we'll work it out in the courts.

In this situation, you should SUSPEND the game and let the powers that be decide on a forfeit. A suspension is 100% reasonable -- for many reasons -- but a forfeit can be second guessed. I'm not saying you run away from tough situations, but when there's an easy, reasonable solution that accomplishes the same thing, do it.

There's no way we are continuing this game if I'm on that crew.

To me, "suspend" vs. "forfeit" is semantics. Either way, the league/state can decide to continue the game. Either way, the league/state can decide to let it stand as is.

I'd be more inclined to go this route if I or my partner(s) decided not to continue with the game.

A better idea, lifetime ban from athletics (no college playing, no chance of going pro) He's more suited to be picking up garbage along the freeway.

Or he could go play for Tim Floyd.

Has there been any media follow-ups to this incident?

In the video it did show the player being "escorted" by a LEO.

I might go for a ban at the high school level. A ban at the college and professional level (no matter how small those chances may be) is both unrealistic and excessive punishment.

The last I saw he was kicked off the team, is facing expulsion from school, and is going to be meeting a judge soon.

I'm probably not going to take a swing at the kid. But I'm also not going to let him body slam me to the floor either.

As for how many technicals to call, I couldn't care less because I'm forfeiting the game.

The video description says that he's off the team, banned from any other extra-cirricular activties and is suspended until Jan. 10th. At the time the video was posted the official had declined to press any charges, but the state might if they wanted to I'm guessing.

I do not know what I would do. I would not be slammed to the floor without doing something. And I would be pressing charges that is the best weapon.

Now I understand the game is forfeited by state rule (not sure but that was suggested) anytime there is an assault like this.

I doubt the game would continue without a rule at this point.

Peace

I personally would be bookin it. If that kid picked up _that_ ref, I'd be nothing to him. I doubt I would respond fast enough to do anything physically but I'd sure be lettin him have an earful, albiet a polite eaful, that I do know I wouldn't be able to control.
I'd forfiet as well. (Especially if this was a rivalry game. But the looks of the video description it was just the kid going off, not a heated thing between the teams/schools.) I doubt I'd be able to be able to regain my professional composure needed to resume officiating.

Florida player slams ref to court in violent altercation - Prep Rally - High School - Yahoo! Sports

The officials did forfeit the game, and were wise to do so imo. The report said that the player has already been suspended for the rest of the season, so his school was quick to act. In another report that I read, the high school governing body was said to be in the process of acting also. I would also doubt very much that criminal charges won't be pressed. Sad situation.

The player's coach certainly seems to be as disturbed about it as everybody else is. I have no idea what the coach is actually like...not knowing the man..but it certainly sounds like there should be absolutely no blame attached to him.

From reports that I've gleaned off the net, the general consensus was that the game was well-officiated up to that point and there's no finger-pointing being made at the officials (which in itself is as unusual as hell).

A tough situation well handled by the guys imo.

Chalk Marks On Jailhouse Wall ...
 

2012 ???

I'm assuming that was "suspended from school." Although Jan 10 means nothing. Here, my kids are off as of Monday for Christmas break, and don't return until the 6th of January. OTOH, that gives them time to meet and decide whether or not to expel, I'm sure.

Notice at the end of that clip that the head coach and his assistant walked their player right out of the gym? Quick thinking and a very wise move under the circumstances imo. T'hell with having him sit on the bench under those circumstances.

<font size = -4>I'm waiting for Nevada to bring up the important part that has been missed so far by everyone else. #3 white had his jersey untucked:D</font>

Fox News had a story on it this morning.

I used to work at a psychiatric institute. I was assaulted by a patient once. We had special training for such situations ( called non aggressive restraint technique ) Amazing how that training kicks in. he hit me 3 times before I could get control of him, but once I did, he couldn't do anything ( Half Nelson restraint ).

Now, point to that story here is, some of us have training, if we defended ourselves without hurting the player, what happens to us? Basic rule is we don't touch players or coaches. But defending yourself is a different story, you can't be a punching bag.

The best thing again, is it was on film. I rarely do a game that is not filmed.

Also, did this happen in the 1st quarter or the 4th? That may have some thing to do with deciding if the game was going to continue.

The size, age and experience of the official might have something to do with continuing the game. I wouldn't be flustered by the experience, but then again, at 6'2", 230 pounds there are not a lot of players who are going to put me to the floor.

I would hope that no college would even consider bringing him into their program - I would hope he would be shunned by the college basketball world.

OTOH, I believe in forgiveness and second chances so maybe if he gets into some kind of anger management program and proves that he is rehabilitated, I might reconsider

+1

We are actually told every year that as game officials we can not "forfeit" a game and should never use that term. We can only "suspend" a game and the VHSL will decide what to do after that. Semnatics? Could be, but it is clarified for us on a yearly basis.

I would like to bring out the point that I thought this official did a good job getting the first foul, prior to the kerfluffle. Great job not ball watching and staying in his area.

By NFHS rule, of course, this is not true. The referee is given explicit authority to forfeit a game if circumstances warrant it. State athletic associations may modify that, but for any newbies reading this thread, you do have the authority to forfeit the game, by rule.

This is a serious error on the part of the official. A strong message needs to be sent here - that assault and battery will not be tolerated, and you'll pay a steep price for it. I'm hoping that the school administrators understand that if the kid will do this to an official, he'll do it to a teacher. Let him slide and he'll do it again. If you could go back in his history, you'd probably find he has done something similar in the past, perhaps not to a teacher or official, maybe to a family member of authority.

Great initial push call. Great T. Great call to forfeit.

I would also not the player push me the 2nd time.

I would definitely press charges.

I didn't see discussed anywhere about the rest of the video:

First play: clearly a 1+1 situation. After the release, the official's arm goes up and he closes down. On the make, he goes back to the correct position. On the 2nd attempt, same thing. You can see him flicking his outside wrist for the foul shot clock. Great job.


On the make of the 2nd, he hangs for a bit to make sure that there is no press. He clears out when there is no threat. Great job.

Other end: closes down when the drive goes baseline. The L picks up the foul. Great teamwork. I would try to get this foul as C, though.

2nd set of foul shots: same great mechanics.

All in all, this guy is a top quality official: excellent judgment, excellent mechanics.

Good points, Jug. I noticed the same. Overall looked quite solid.

I did think he made a mistake of approaching the player he called a T on. But he was on his way to the table, and it probably wouldn't have made a difference. :(

Ya - that's a tough one, though I don't think a single person who will defend the player will say "the ref walked toward the player". If they do, they'll have egg on their face when they learn about referee mechanics and what we're commissioned to do.

I believe that the step that C took towards the player was in response to a question by the player, and well before any of the physical contact aspects.

Copy of the police report:

H.S. Ref Gets Slammed | The Smoking Gun

Looks like the Ref is originally from Pittsburgh.

Fox Sports has it now.

Going viral.

The player is an adult (over 18) so this will stay with him pretty much the rest of his life. With an adult police record he'll be very fortunate to get into any college - if he is able to graduate from HS.

Report: High school hoops player attacks ref during game - News | FOX Sports on MSN

High school player attacks ref

At the 23 second mark in the video, you can see that the score is 21-26 Visitors are winning and the fouls are 9 to 10. 2:30 left on the clock. I can't see the quarter, but I would say before 1/2 time.

Hey Mark:

Game forfeited never go to overtime! :D

Correct. Before the clock faded out, I could see the "2" where the current quarter is typically located.

Plus, it's definitely the first half since both sets of the foul shots were away from that team's bench. (That is, assuming that the officials didn't permit the team to go in the wrong direction for 13½+ minutes. LMAO :D)

Just saw this covered on Sportscenter.

Sshhhhhh...... Don't ruin a good thing. ;)

You going to send him a friend request? :p

facebook stalking....cool. :D

I assume that a friend request is a Facebook thing. I wouldn't know, since I don't have Facebook.

Meh, it's a different world than when you and I grew up.

Yes it sureashell is. And I commend you highly for deleting that link, Juggler.

You are wise beyond your years.

Yes, it's a Facebook thing. Some just automatically accept friend requests, others have to grant permission for the friend request to happen.

I won't go that far. Was this a descipable act? Yes, and he should be punished to the full extent of the law. But after that, if some program wants to take a chance on him for some reason, I'm not going to be shouting for banishment from college ball.

If he's good enough, it will be conveniently forgotten. See OJ Mayo for reference.

Found this lovely little quote from the player in the accompanying article...

"In an interview last night with police, a “remorseful” Holland appeared to blame the referees for allowing opposing players to rough him up without whistling them for fouls. Holland “stated that the referees were seeing this happen but was not calling any fouls on the opposing team.”

Of course it's the fault of the officials :rolleyes:

Standard disclaimer, I'm new, wasn't there....

Does anybody see contact by the defense at the endline immediately after the throw-in? Still absolutely no excuse.

Maybe it's just me, but does anybody else think that it might just not be the greatest idea in the world to publish the official's name on this site also. Juggler got rid of the Facebook link of the assaulter, and rightly so imo. Is this really any different?

Or is it maybe just my caring, sensitive side coming through again?

I'd go with either 1) Your meds are kicking in or 2) It is blue jello nite at The Home and it always puts you in a good mood!

IMO, names are ok Facebook pages, not so much.

Um yeah. The C saw it also. That's why he called a foul on the white player for that contact. He had his fist up for that foul before the second push-off happened. He then called the flagrant technical foul for the second push-off by the white player.

Is your point that the calling official wrongly called the first foul on the endline contact?

Well, you should be well aware by now of what I personally think of your opinion, with or without meds or blue jello. :)

+1

Did you miss the police report that had part of the guy's phone number? And his Date of Birth? And part of his employer? Each of those pieces of information can be used for identity theft.

What did the Fb screen grab show? The only thing that wasn't in the newspaper report, is that this player "is in a relationship" and that he uses piss-poor grammar. (All info not related to the person personally was white'd out.)

So I just watched the video again.

That player needs a permanent mark on his record.

That's why you are wise beyond your years, Juggler...and Old School Junior ain't.

Aaaaahhhh, guys. Facebook is a social network system which has mostly people in their late 30s and older than folks that are growing up. Next thing you are going to say the PlayStation 3 is for kids too. :D

Peace

Cite your source.

Research I did says the opposite.

The largest age group is 18-24. The next largest age group is 25-34. The age group that encompasses people in their late 30s is the same size as people that are less than 18.

In other words, the age group you mentioned is not even in 3rd place by itself: it is tied for 3rd, and spots 1 and 2 account for 55% of Facebook's demographics.

Not LeBron ???
 

I have done enough citing sources in the last several days. ;)

But it has been well known that the average group on Facebook is in their mid to late 30s. Why, because this is an age group that has grown up with computers and use the site to connect with people they went to school with or they have not seen in years. I got on FB because people at my church were on there and we would send out information to members for many events. Also my high school class used FB to send out information about our reunion this past summer. None of those folks are in their 20s I can assure you of that. I have almost 400 friends on FB and I know just about all of them from childhood, high school, college, church and officials. Almost none of them are in that age group.

MySpace is different and has a different group of people that use and visit that site. And the usage of MySpace is also very different.


I am not talking about accounts. Anyone can get an account. Who is using the site is a different story and primarily what I am talking about.

That's a crock, too. Should be Assange.

Which category are you in, Facebook Boy? :D

No one heard of this guy until the last few weeks. People heard been talking about Zuckerberg for a couple of years now.

Peace

I am certainly not 18-24 years old. ;)

Peace

I'm a bit disappointed that the official in the video is declining to file charges. I've had a situation, in my first year officiating, where I filed charges on two players who threaten wait outside for me and kick my *** after their team accumulated 3 T's which meant an automatic forfeit of the game. I had to get a police ride back to my place (this was at my school gym and my place was 5 minutes away). The police officer suggested and even encouraged that I filed the charges. He even went so far as to pick me up the next day and drive me down to the police station! :eek:

In situations like this, I feel we have to send a strong message that this isn't okay and to prosecute where necessary.

People heard been talking?

WTH does that mean?

Oh ya, people have been talking about Assange and WikiLeaks since 2006. You just don't know where to look. And previously, Assange was praised for things he did. Now that there are false sexual accusations against him, people listen. Sex sells remains true.

+1

You don't just do it for yourself. You do it for all of us.

AllPurposeGamer - you must have missed a couple of the posts, including the police report. The report was filed and the case has been turned over to the State Attorney's Office. Since the player is an adult, he'll have to deal with this felony for the rest of his life.
By the way, all that information, including the names of both the victim and the accused is public in nature, as is Facebook unless you decide to make your stuff private. Even the addresses are public. You could have left the police report on as well as the facebook snapshot. Everything there can be publically accessed. We might not like it, but that is the world we live in.

Current info says otherwise.

MySpace is dead. Just like Digg. They both had their chance and screwed it up.

Cite a source that says the age group of late 30s are the ones that "use" Fb the most.

It was a typo relax.

I have never heard about Assange since he decided to talk release information. Never heard others talk about him until this situation. More people have talked about his situation on FB when it happened. That is why the guy that invented FB got the recognition.

I have read this in more than one place and saw it talked about on the news several times. That being said MySpace is used by a lot of artist and people trying to make a name for themselves in the entertainment industry, so it is not completely dead. Just used differently. And why do I have to cite a source? You have not given me anything that is sourced? Dude, you are not my professors. :D

It did not take long to find.

Peace

You're right...I went back and read the link with the police report. Good on him. He's doing the officiating community a great deal of good by going through with the entire process.

Facebook was originally started to help college students network & in order to use you had to have a College e-mail address. However anyone with an interest in it now can use it, no matter what age.

If the PS3 was just for kids, then why are there several games ESRB-Rated: AO-M?

Umm, you did not properly source your hyper link using standard APA standard formatting. Therefore, I am not sure how much accuracy we can credit the article.:eek: