Official Attacked

[Welpe]

Wow. Talk about a temper tantrum. Hopefully the official wasn't injured.

If you all don't mind, let's dissect this a bit as there is a lot going on. First there is at least a common or possibly intentional foul. Then the calling official assesses what appears to be a flagrant technical on the player. After that we have at least two more flagrant technicals on the same player.

My thoughts are we assess all fouls against the player without any indirects to the head coach and the other team is shooting at least 6 shots with the lane cleared.

What I'm wondering is if you all would consider ending the game at this point as this crew did?

It also gets me to thinking as to what I would do in this official's situation. I think he was clearly surprised but I'm not so sure I would just stand there either. Hard to say from the comfort of my computer screen.

[Adam]

Not sure what the original call was, but it looks like a TC foul followed by a technical foul followed by a flagrant (I'd likely go with 1) felony foul.

As for ending the game? Probably. Depending on what happened before, it could be a definitely thing. But now you've got officials (at least one) who are emotionally shaken (I know I'd be).

[DLH17]

So much for "hurt feelings".... how about a hurt face???

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Welpe

It also gets me to thinking as to what I would do in this official's situation. I think he was clearly surprised but I'm not so sure I would just stand there either. Hard to say from the comfort of my computer screen.

And what other response would you envision yourself taking? If it involves physical retaliation, be prepared to be arrested yourself and/or face possible lawsuits in the future.

You are the adult on the scene...you will - like it or not - be held to a higher standard than the juvenile involved.

[Welpe]

I was thinking more along the lines of creating or keeping distance between myself and the player to try and descalate the situation. Obviously retaliation is not an option and it is certainly not descalating the situation.

I agree that as the adult I am held to the higher standard, but I also reserve the right to protect myself from physical injury against a "kid" that has six inches on me and is physically stronger than I am.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I was thinking more along the lines of creating or keeping distance between myself and the player to try and descalate the situation. Obviously retaliation is not an option and it is certainly not descalating the situation.

I agree that as the adult I am held to the higher standard, but I also reserve the right to protect myself from physical injury against a "kid" that has six inches on me and is physically stronger than I am.

The "create or keep distance" is pretty much your best course of action. As far as the right to protect yourself - all I can say is that the courts in this great country sometimes have a different view of that right than we do. As a teacher, I learned long ago to never use force against a student attacking me. About the only time I can legally use physical force is if it will prevent harm to another student. That was the only acceptable defense in the situation I found myself in a number of years ago.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

As a teacher, I learned long ago to never use force against a student attacking me. .

I remember a day when teachers were not afraid of the students or afraid of what might happen if they touched them...touch? Heck, Whack the he!! out of them with big ol paddles if their hands weren't enough.

I'm not saying those were "good ol' days"...but, somewhere between there and where we are now seems more reasonable.

I guess that's one of the reasons I got out of teaching, after just one year, at the age of 23.

Rocky sounds like he has a story (or two)...well, I have one I will share.

Once upon a time...there was this young 23 year old P.E. teacher/coach coming in from track practice with his Middle School kids. Some H.S. kids were milling around the outside Locker Room entrance. (The High School and Middle School were on the same grounds, as this was a small rural school in southern Idaho.)

Well, as the young teacher was getting ready to enter the building, a H.S. kid says, "Hey dude, what's up?"...and preceded to knock the baseball cap off the young teacher's head.

Young teacher saw red...grabbed the H.S. kid by the back of his collar and not very gently at all put his head on the pavement. The H.S. kid was then directed to "pick up my hat". After some time of feeling around on the ground for the hat...his cheek was against the pavement...he found it and handed the hat over to the young teacher. The young teacher must have still been seeing red because as soon as the young teacher had hat in hand, he gave the H.S. kid a good shove against a nearby car.

Probably not the best way to handle it...and for sure this young teacher had not been taught that in his College Education Methods class...but, you know what? That H.S. troublemaker (I guess he had a rep) was a perfect gentleman every time that young teacher saw him after that. It was Mr. this and Mr. that.

I know that story could have had all kinds of bad endings...but, lucky for this young teacher...nothing came of it.

Soooo, that young teacher could have been fired...Well, this ol' basketball offical might get fired if he thinks he is in physical danger and reacts accordingly. i.e. defending one's self.

Arrested?...we'll work it out in the courts.

[Refsmitty]

+1

Originally Posted by rookiedude

i remember a day when teachers were not afraid of the students or afraid of what might happen if they touched them...touch? Heck, whack the he!! Out of them with big ol paddles if their hands weren't enough.

I'm not saying those were "good ol' days"...but, somewhere between there and where we are now seems more reasonable.

I guess that's one of the reasons i got out of teaching, after just one year, at the age of 23.

Rocky sounds like he has a story (or two)...well, i have one i will share.

Once upon a time...there was this young 23 year old p.e. Teacher/coach coming in from track practice with his middle school kids. Some h.s. Kids were milling around the outside locker room entrance. (the high school and middle school were on the same grounds, as this was a small rural school in southern idaho.)

well, as the young teacher was getting ready to enter the building, a h.s. Kid says, "hey dude, what's up?"...and preceded to knock the baseball cap off the young teacher's head.

Young teacher saw red...grabbed the h.s. Kid by the back of his collar and not very gently at all put his head on the pavement. The h.s. Kid was then directed to "pick up my hat". After some time of feeling around on the ground for the hat...his cheek was against the pavement...he found it and handed the hat over to the young teacher. The young teacher must have still been seeing red because as soon as the young teacher had hat in hand, he gave the h.s. Kid a good shove against a nearby car.

Probably not the best way to handle it...and for sure this young teacher had not been taught that in his college education methods class...but, you know what? That h.s. Troublemaker (i guess he had a rep) was a perfect gentleman every time that young teacher saw him after that. It was mr. This and mr. That.

I know that story could have had all kinds of bad endings...but, lucky for this young teacher...nothing came of it.

Soooo, that young teacher could have been fired...well, this ol' basketball offical might get fired if he thinks he is in physical danger and reacts accordingly. I.e. Defending one's self.

Arrested?...we'll work it out in the courts.

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by Welpe

What I'm wondering is if you all would consider ending the game at this point as this crew did?

Something similar happened to my partner and he couldn't consider ending the game. Not because of physical conditions, though the attack had been more violent than that, but the stress on everybody had been very heavy.

It was reported in the papers, because it happened in a wheelchair basketball game.

Ciao

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by Welpe

It also gets me to thinking as to what I would do in this official's situation. I think he was clearly surprised but I'm not so sure I would just stand there either. Hard to say from the comfort of my computer screen.

I like where you're going with this. Player was wrong, no two ways about it. The official handled his business with class. Doesn't mean there isn't something valuable to be learned.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Wow. Talk about a temper tantrum. Hopefully the official wasn't injured.

If you all don't mind, let's dissect this a bit as there is a lot going on. First there is at least a common or possibly intentional foul. Then the calling official assesses what appears to be a flagrant technical on the player. After that we have at least two more flagrant technicals on the same player.

My thoughts are we assess all fouls against the player without any indirects to the head coach and the other team is shooting at least 6 shots with the lane cleared.

What I'm wondering is if you all would consider ending the game at this point as this crew did?

It also gets me to thinking as to what I would do in this official's situation. I think he was clearly surprised but I'm not so sure I would just stand there either. Hard to say from the comfort of my computer screen.

First of all, I have no idea how I'd react in that situation.

Second, I noticed that between the foul and free throws that preceded the incident that the non-calling officials didn't seem to be watching the players. That seems like a mistake, though perhaps an inconsequential one. OTOH, it may also be an indication that there wasn't anything obvious "brewing" and that what happened really came out of the blue.

[Larks]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

First of all, I have no idea how I'd react in that situation.

Totally agree with that. You don't know until you live it.

[Texas Aggie]

In this situation, you should SUSPEND the game and let the powers that be decide on a forfeit. A suspension is 100% reasonable -- for many reasons -- but a forfeit can be second guessed. I'm not saying you run away from tough situations, but when there's an easy, reasonable solution that accomplishes the same thing, do it.

There's no way we are continuing this game if I'm on that crew.

[Adam]

To me, "suspend" vs. "forfeit" is semantics. Either way, the league/state can decide to continue the game. Either way, the league/state can decide to let it stand as is.

[chseagle]

A better idea, lifetime ban from athletics (no college playing, no chance of going pro) He's more suited to be picking up garbage along the freeway.