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-   -   Travel? Loss of Possession? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/59949-travel-loss-possession.html)

CDurham Wed Dec 01, 2010 06:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsonboys03 (Post 704403)
there is a comma in there... The try ends ewhen the throw is successful, when it is CERTAIN the thrown ball is unsuccessful, when the thrown ball touches the floor or when the ball becomes dead.

The motion that preceeds the release of the ball and then the landing I would believe is where the violation comes from. If he wouldn't have fumbled the ball and did the same thing, it would be a travel. So the fumble shouldn't mean anything.
I'm sorry but somewhere I got lost on this dicussion. Anybody wanna let me in on the new debate?

Adam Wed Dec 01, 2010 06:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwest (Post 704389)
SUppose this happend on a jump stop. The dribble ended when the player gathered the ball. He then jumps off one foot. He loses control momentarily and regains it before he comes down on both feet. This is not a travel.
The case play here is 4.44.3D, which when read in concert with 4.44.3A tells you it's a travel if the player jumps to shoot, intentionally releases the ball, then catches it before it hits the floor. Whether he lands before the ball is caught is irrelevant, also.

johnsonboys03 Wed Dec 01, 2010 06:07pm
I absolutely agree with that! I would think that fumbling the ball and landing with out the ball hitting the floor would be the same travell call

Indianaref Wed Dec 01, 2010 06:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsonboys03 (Post 704412)
I absolutely agree with that! I would think that fumbling the ball and landing with out the ball hitting the floor would be the same travell call
You would :(

johnsonboys03 Wed Dec 01, 2010 06:15pm
Indiana...what do you mean by that?

CMHCoachNRef Wed Dec 01, 2010 06:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDurham (Post 704357)
A1 is dribbling and jumps into the air. Somehow the ball slips from his grasp above his head and hangs in the air for a split second. While the ball is separated, his hands/arms are moving "frantically" in order to re-grab the ball. He then grabs the ball and lands.

Loss of possession therefore legal?

Or Travel?

Thanks!
Can you describe where his feet were when the last dribble occurred or the last touch occurred? Based on your description, the player was dribbling the ball and jumped into the air. You did not indicate that the player picked up his dribble -- you simply indicated that the ball slipped from his grasp (on the dribble or did he attempt to pick up the dribble with both hands). You then indicated that the ball ended up over his head (is this a case of a high dribble?). Doing all of this while in the air. Where his feet were when the last touch was made is relevant. If he does all of this while his feet are in the air, I cannot see how the play can be ruled a travel -- assuming the feet were off the ground when the last dribble occurred.

By definition, per 4-44, "traveling is moving the foot or feet in any direction in excess of the prescribed limits while HOLDING the ball." I find it hard to see a travel in this play unless the feet are doing more than has been described.

CDurham Wed Dec 01, 2010 06:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef (Post 704419)
Can you describe where his feet were when the last dribble occurred or the last touch occurred? Based on your description, the player was dribbling the ball and jumped into the air. You did not indicate that the player picked up his dribble -- you simply indicated that the ball slipped from his grasp (on the dribble or did he attempt to pick up the dribble with both hands). You then indicated that the ball ended up over his head (is this a case of a high dribble?). Doing all of this while in the air. Where his feet were when the last touch was made is relevant. If he does all of this while his feet are in the air, I cannot see how the play can be ruled a travel -- assuming the feet were off the ground when the last dribble occurred.

By definition, per 4-44, "traveling is moving the foot or feet in any direction in excess of the prescribed limits while HOLDING the ball." I find it hard to see a travel in this play unless the feet are doing more than has been described.
Okay lets see if I can be clearer. He was dribbling. Stopped. Jumped. And somehow the ball was fumbled in the judgement of the officials (dont disagree they had a great look at it) and the ball continued to go upward in direction. It wasnt a shot. The player then regained control of the ball. And landed. Hope this helped.

Twinfan Wed Dec 01, 2010 06:59pm
Back to a travel call then. He left the floor in control of the ball. His legal options while in the air are pass or shoot. He came back down in control of the ball, he had not passed or shot - travel is the violation.

CDurham Wed Dec 01, 2010 07:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twinfan (Post 704426)
Back to a travel call then. He left the floor in control of the ball. His legal options while in the air are pass or shoot. He came back down in control of the ball, he had not passed or shot - travel is the violation.
What about the fumble? Which is accidental loss of player control. If he loses player control on his fumble how can you have a travel when he re-gains the ball and lands?

Adam Wed Dec 01, 2010 07:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twinfan (Post 704426)
Back to a travel call then. He left the floor in control of the ball. His legal options while in the air are pass or shoot. He came back down in control of the ball, he had not passed or shot - travel is the violation.
Wrong, the fumble changes everything.

Adam Wed Dec 01, 2010 07:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsonboys03 (Post 704412)
I absolutely agree with that! I would think that fumbling the ball and landing with out the ball hitting the floor would be the same travell call
And you're wrong.

CDurham Wed Dec 01, 2010 07:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 704436)
Wrong, the fumble changes everything.
Snaq, not making fun or being disrespectful, but is it that difficult to understand?

Adam Wed Dec 01, 2010 07:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDurham (Post 704440)
Snaq, not making fun or being disrespectful, but is it that difficult to understand?
No, it's not. That said, I noticed that our Twinfan is from Canada. That means he might be commenting from a more, uh, metric perspective. Perhaps this play is ruled differently in metric rules.

CDurham Wed Dec 01, 2010 07:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 704442)
No, it's not. That said, I noticed that our Twinfan is from Canada. That means he might be commenting from a more, uh, metric perspective. Perhaps this play is ruled differently in metric rules.

Could be. We haven't integrated to the metric system down south yet. Maybe soon though.

Nevadaref Wed Dec 01, 2010 07:52pm
Very good previous discussion of this in these old threads:

http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...-question.html

http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...rops-ball.html

http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...72-travel.html


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