Lazy Partner Advice

[bainsey]

There are a small handful of "veteran" officials that can't be bothered enforcing uniform or other less popular rules in sub-varsity games. (Our board has made it clear that all uniform rules are to be enforced at all levels, be it varsity or middle school.)

Let's say you're the umpire, and the vet is the referee. As you look over players during pre-game warm-ups, the home teams looks compliant, but you notice the visiting team has some players that could have illegal numbers, or wearing illegal undershirts, or jewerly, etc. You point it out to your partner, but he insists on letting it go. It's not varsity, so in his mind, it really doesn't matter.

Does coach notification only fall upon the referee's shoulders? Or, should the umpire notify the home coach, and the referee talk to the visitors'? Should an official "step up" such enforcement if a partner refuses to do so?

Thoughts, please.

[johnsonboys03]

That would be a tough situation. You want to always be a united group and support your partner no matter what, but you want to follow the rules and he doesn't. I think I would let it go but voice your oppinion at half time when you two are alone. Allowing the rules to not be followed allows confusion to kreep in when teams play when other official will be enforcing the rules.

Not to mention I was a Junior High coach before I was an official and I despised the comment of "coach this is just a junior high game"! I coached just as hard and the players played just as hard as a varsity team....They deserve our best as officials as well. That's what they pay us to do!

I know that probably doesn't help. Tough situation!

[JRutledge]

Well I happen to agree with the veteran that these rules should not apply to non-varsity contests. That is the way it is in my area because many of the uniforms are warm-ups or hand-me-downs. That being said who was the Referee? That should ultimately be the Referee's decision. If he was the Referee than you are off the hook. If you are the Referee, then you make the decision that is based on the game. Then if you are asked about why the rule was not enforced, then you can say "He was the Referee."

Peace

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well I happen to agree with the veteran that these rules should not apply to non-varsity contests. That is the way it is in my area because many of the uniforms are warm-ups or hand-me-downs. That being said who was the Referee? That should ultimately be the Referee's decision. If he was the Referee than you are off the hook. If you are the Referee, then you make the decision that is based on the game. Then if you are asked about why the rule was not enforced, then you can say "He was the Referee."

Peace

Mr. Rutledge,

I just don't agree. A veteran should be an example and show the new guys what right should look like. It should matter what level.

If we are not enforcing the uniform rules, what other rules should we ignore at the sub-varsity level?

[amusedofficial]

Schools are struggling to field teams and to fund programs, and kids are more and more being forced to pay to play in high school, even in poorer school districts.

It is more important that they be able to get team on the court than to start slapping T's because somebody has an old uniform that doesn't meet the latest NFHS fashion whim.

And no, giving some subvarsity latitute on the dress code doesn't mean ignoring playing rules. Any suggestion that giving latitude on uniform issues to subvarsity teams is the same as ignoring playing rules is patently absurd.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Mr. Rutledge,

I just don't agree. A veteran should be an example and show the new guys what right should look like. It should matter what level.

If we are not enforcing the uniform rules, what other rules should we ignore at the sub-varsity level?

Think about freshmen level ball where uniforms are hand-me-downs usually from Soph or Varsity teams. A skinny kid has enough problems keeping his pants up, much less his jersey tucked in. To penalize that player by following the 'letter of law' just isn't common sense. If he makes an effort to comply that should be sufficient. It's called game management. Yes, you're aware of the rule, and you're not ignoring it because of laziness, again just applying common sense and a sense of fair play.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Think about freshmen level ball where uniforms are hand-me-downs usually from Soph or Varsity teams. A skinny kid has enough problems keeping his pants up, much less his jersey tucked in. To penalize that player by following the 'letter of law' just isn't common sense. If he makes an effort to comply that should be sufficient. It's called game management. Yes, you're aware of the rule, and you're not ignoring it because of laziness, again just applying common sense and a sense of fair play.

I'm with Bob and JR on this. 3-4 is for varsity; 3-5 is for everyone.

The OP said specifically his association has been told to enforce everything at all levels. So why are people on this board giving him advice to ignore his association?

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Think about freshmen level ball where uniforms are hand-me-downs usually from Soph or Varsity teams. A skinny kid has enough problems keeping his pants up, much less his jersey tucked in.

Fullor - I remember a JVB game I had a few yrs ago where they used the V hand me downs. The uniform tops were so big on some of the younger kids the arm holes were nearly tucked into the shorts and we could barely see some of the numbers. And, if they didn't have the waste-tie (dingle-dangle for you military) or it didn't work or was missing on the shorts we had the pants problems you allude to. Was really bothersome on many and really took away from their play.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Mr. Rutledge,

I just don't agree. A veteran should be an example and show the new guys what right should look like. It should matter what level.

If we are not enforcing the uniform rules, what other rules should we ignore at the sub-varsity level?

You obviously did not read or understand what I said. Where I am from this is a Referee thing. If the Referee makes the decision about uniforms they take the heat if they do not follow the rules. Also many of these rules in my state have been considered minor and not to go around giving Ts for uniform infractions. We were told those were for varsity contests only. And I can tell you I bet my state is going much crazier over those infractions than any other state.

And you enforce the rules the way you have been instructed. Not by what we say here. And that includes sub-varsity games. Middle school does not even come into this conversation where I live as there are no widely accepted body that dictates what we do at that level (at least in my part of the state).

Peace

[j51969]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Mr. Rutledge,

I just don't agree. A veteran should be an example and show the new guys what right should look like. It should matter what level.

If we are not enforcing the uniform rules, what other rules should we ignore at the sub-varsity level?

Mr. Rutledge,

I do agree.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well I happen to agree with the veteran that these rules should not apply to non-varsity contests. That is the way it is in my area because many of the uniforms are warm-ups or hand-me-downs. That being said who was the Referee? That should ultimately be the Referee's decision. If he was the Referee than you are off the hook. If you are the Referee, then you make the decision that is based on the game. Then if you are asked about why the rule was not enforced, then you can say "He was the Referee."

The original post mentioned players wearing illegal undershirts or jewelry. I agree with using discretion with illegal numbers or uniform problems at the lower levels. But that is NO excuse for ignoring jewelry violations. Those are a safety problem. And there's also no excuse for allowing illegal undershirts under a uni imo. I don't have a problem with anyone ignoring infractions listed under rule 3-4 UNIFORMS at the lower levels, but there is no excuse imo for ignoring infractions under rule 3-5 TEAM MEMBER'S EQUIPMENT, APPAREL at any level. Those are the exact instructions that we give out to members of our association btw.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The original post mentioned players wearing illegal undershirts or jewelry. I agree with using discretion with illegal numbers or uniform problems at the lower levels. But that is NO excuse for ignoring jewelry violations. Those are a safety problem. And there's also no excuse for allowing illegal undershirts under a uni imo. I don't have a problem with anyone ignoring infractions listed under rule 3-4 UNIFORMS at the lower levels, but there is no excuse imo for ignoring infractions under rule 3-5 TEAM MEMBER'S EQUIPMENT, APPAREL at any level. Those are the exact instructions that we give out to members of our association btw.

+1

On the OP -- it needs to be raised within the association. Or, just go over to the other team and tell them yourself -- there's plenty of time to do that while the R is at the table checking the book, etc. Or -- just mention it casually in the pre-game meeting with the coaches and captains.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The original post mentioned players wearing illegal undershirts or jewelry. I agree with using discretion with illegal numbers or uniform problems at the lower levels. But that is NO excuse for ignoring jewelry violations. Those are a safety problem. And there's also no excuse for allowing illegal undershirts under a uni imo. I don't have a problem with anyone ignoring infractions listed under rule 3-4 UNIFORMS at the lower levels, but there is no excuse imo for ignoring infractions under rule 3-5 TEAM MEMBER'S EQUIPMENT, APPAREL at any level. Those are the exact instructions that we give out to members of our association btw.

He said "illegal number" as well. Which means that a kid might have a 28 instead of a 25. In my career I have seen players put a piece of tape over the 8 which I would consider illegal and not penalize. I have also seen teams with no number on the front, but numbers on the back. Often freshman ball will have warm-up jerseys and not real jerseys, which have all kinds of illegal issues under the actual rule. And if we enforce that rule to the letter, we would have to start every game with a T or in some cases like tournaments not allow an undershirt to be worn when they have to flip the jersey just to play another game in the same day.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

He said "illegal number" as well. Which means that a kid might have a 28 instead of a 25. In my career I have seen players put a piece of tape over the 8 which I would consider illegal and not penalize. I have also seen teams with no number on the front, but numbers on the back. Often freshman ball will have warm-up jerseys and not real jerseys, which have all kinds of illegal issues under the actual rule. And if we enforce that rule to the letter, we would have to start every game with a T or in some cases like tournaments not allow an undershirt to be worn when they have to flip the jersey just to play another game in the same day.

Peace

but if his association has determined these rules should be enforced even below the varsity level (which I would question for the reasons we've discussed ad nauseum), then the veteran should be leading by example here.

I agree with your assessment on how the new guy should respond. Defer to the veteran in situations like this. Of course, with jewelry items, I'd do as Bob suggested and just bring it up myself.

[deecee]

the only rules at the lower level regarding uniforms i would have a wide flexibility of is color, number etc. (things that might be out of the schools or players control) however regarding jewelry and undershirts, no way.

As for the association saying carte blanche it is to be enforced could just be that lower level officials might not have the capacity to make that decision and it is easier to just say that, but in reality they might understand if an official erred on the side of common sense. I am just speculating of course but that's just an hypothesis.