The Most Misunderstood Basketball Rules

[jmwking]

I've found this fascinating enough to register after many years of lurking. Thanks, Billymac, for all the work that's obviously gone into this.

I do have a question (or three), as in your introduction you said you used this with the college game, too. I don't know if you have any intention that this list work for NCAA rules or not, but I'd at least like to ask or point out these discrepancies I noticed in case someone reads it from that angle. If I've missed something painfully obvious, please forgive me!

You stated that "the backboard has nothing to do with goaltending". The NCAA (4-34.3) says "When the entire ball is above the level of the ring during a field-goal try and contacts the backboard, it is considered to be on its downward flight. In such a case, it is goaltending when the ball is touched by a player."

Also, for a 5 second violation, you said, "the count continues even if defenders switch". The NCAA (4-13.3) states "After the start of a five-second closely guarded count, in order for a closely guarded violation to occur, there shall be continuous guarding by the same opponent."

Lastly, you said "a player saving the ball in the air can ask for and be granted a timeout even if that player is going out of bounds." NCAA (5-12.1.c) has "No timeouts shall be granted... to a player or coach when an airborne player’s momentum is carrying him/her out of bounds or into the backcourt."

Again, I'm only pointing this out as you indicated you gave this presentation to college audiences, and these points didn't seem to mesh.

Thanks.

[Adam]

Interesting catches; two of those three are, I think, fairly recent changes at the NCAA level.

[chseagle]

Schmuck is most often used in American English as a pejorative or insult, meaning an obnoxious, contemptible person; one who is stupid, foolish, or detestable. The word is also used by many Jewish people across Europe with similar pejorative meanings. Variants of spelling and alterations include shmuck, schmo, and shmo.

Got the definition from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schmuck_(pejorative)

Originally Posted by BillyMac

What is the meaning of this word "schmucked" that both you, and Woody, from the NFHS Basketball Forum, have been using today? Is this some type of colloquial thing? Are you two from the same neighborhood in hell.

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Schmuck is most often used in American English as a pejorative or insult, meaning an obnoxious, contemptible person; one who is stupid, foolish, or detestable. The word is also used by many Jewish people across Europe with similar pejorative meanings. Variants of spelling and alterations include shmuck, schmo, and shmo.

Got the definition from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schmuck_(pejorative)

The most dissonant aspect of JR's usage is this term is always used as a noun. Using it as a verb form is highly irregular and may be indigenous to the environs of Hell. As JR is obviously a shagitz, he can be excused his error.

PS:Timerboy, I'm surprised you didn't reflexively mention the diminutive form; schmeckel

[chseagle]

Schmuck | Define Schmuck at Dictionary.com

schmuck [shmuhk]
–noun Slang .
an obnoxious or contemptible person.

Origin:
1890–95; < Yiddish shmok (vulgar) lit., p£nis (of uncert. orig.)

Schmekel's definition is of a small organ

Originally Posted by justacoach

The most dissonant aspect of JR's usage is this term is always used as a noun. Using it as a verb form is highly irregular and may be indigenous to the environs of Hell. As JR is obviously a shagitz, he can be excused his error.

PS:Timerboy, I'm surprised you didn't reflexively mention the diminutive form; schmeckel

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by jmwking

You indicated you gave this presentation to college audiences, and these points didn't seem to mesh.

College level coaching class at a small Christian college. Most of these students were former high school players who hoped to coach high school basketball after graduation. I made it clear to them at the time that these were a set of high school rules and that NCAA rules, and NBA rules, although similar, were not exactly the same.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by justacoach

The most dissonant aspect of JR's usage is this term is always used as a noun. Using it as a verb form is highly irregular and may be indigenous to the environs of Hell. As JR is obviously a shagitz, he can be excused his error.

PS:Timerboy, I'm surprised you didn't reflexively mention the diminutive form; schmeckel

Yiddish has 113 words synonymous with 'schmuck,' but they all have subtle shades of meaning. 'Schmuck' and 'schmekel' both can be applied with a wink and a smile to your buddy; somebody who is more annoying might be a 'putz'.

[Freddy]

The paragraph on "palming" might benefit from a mention of the visually enabling illustration, "Anything more than a handshake..."

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Yiddish has 113 words synonymous with 'schmuck,' but they all have subtle shades of meaning. 'Schmuck' and 'schmekel' both can be applied with a wink and a smile to your buddy; somebody who is more annoying might be a 'putz'.

Coach, I haven't heard those terms in many a yr.......

Man, I may actually go over to my dad's later today and let him read this thread. He might get a kick out of it too!

[jmwking]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

College level coaching class at a small Christian college. Most of these students were former high school players who hoped to coach high school basketball after graduation. I made it clear to them at the time that these were a set of high school rules and that NCAA rules, and NBA rules, although similar, were not exactly the same.

Ah. Thanks for the clarification.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Freddy

The paragraph on "palming" might benefit from a mention of the visually enabling illustration, "Anything more than a handshake..."

Palming a schmuck???

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by jmwking

You stated that "the backboard has nothing to do with goaltending". The NCAA (4-34.3) says "When the entire ball is above the level of the ring during a field-goal try and contacts the backboard, it is considered to be on its downward flight. In such a case, it is goaltending when the ball is touched by a player."

I take this to mean that touching the backboard has nothing to do with GT, which is true even at the college level. As BillyMac has it written here, I can understand how it could be confusing when considering the college rule. (But in fairness to Billy, I'm pretty sure he was only writing with NFHS rules in mind.)

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Yes indeed. I love to reminisce about my youth. It was a much simpler time. Oh the wonderful memories: The Six Days War; Berlin Wall; Watergate; Bay of Pigs; Cuban missile crisis; JFK, Malcolm X, Robert F. Kennedy, and MLK Jr. assassinated; Vietnam War; Racial bigotry; Fallout shelters.

We didn't star the fire... It was always burning...

[vatennball]

I was at a high school game and following a made basket the inbounding teams player held the ball for 3 seconds and then inbounded the ball. His teammate allowed the ball to roll upcourt without touching it. The official call a 5 second violation stating his teammate has to touch the ball for the 5 second count to stop. I did not think this was the corret interpetation, but did not know what section to reference. Any help would be appreciated.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by vatennball

I was at a high school game and following a made basket the inbounding teams player held the ball for 3 seconds and then inbounded the ball. His teammate allowed the ball to roll upcourt without touching it. The official call a 5 second violation stating his teammate has to touch the ball for the 5 second count to stop. I did not think this was the corret interpetation, but did not know what section to reference. Any help would be appreciated.

If that was why he made the call, he was wrong, and I'll bet he makes a lot of 5 second calls that shouldn't be made.

Was this particular official an older gentleman?