Tough Spot in 2-Man

[stiffler3492]

I'm lead on the end line. The ball is on my side, as I can see out of the corner of my eye, but it's up near the division line. The ball goes out of bounds on my sideline. I didn't see who it went off of, partly because my eyes were shifting from my primary to my line, partly because I didn't have a good look at it anyway.

Luckily my partner knew who knocked it out of bounds.

Any techniques you guys use for this tough spot?

[Adam]

Exactly what you did. One of the toughest calls to make is your OOB line in your partner's primary; especially a call in the backcourt as lead.

Some areas give this to the trail anyway. In my area, this is still the lead's line, but the trail will normally help with the call.

Hit the whistle, then look to your partner for help; he should be expecting it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Hit the whistle, then look to your partner for help; he should be expecting it.

Agree. When in doubt, stop the clock first. Then figure it out. You've got two officials out there. You both should be able to figure it out, and if not, there's always the possession arrow. But get that damn clock stopped.

[Back In The Saddle]

This is part of my regular two-person pre-game for both tough spots (sideline above FTLE and end line beyond the far lane line). Depending on how my partner feels about it, the lead will either whistle, signal stop clock and say, "Help!," or whistle, signal stop clock and give the official deer in the headlights stare. Either way, trail should already be expecting to help with this call and will respond by giving a clear direction signal, which the lead will mirror. And, on the rare occasion when the lead is so preoccupied with play in his area that he doesn't see the ball go OOB, the trail will simply whistle it and make the call.

[stripes]

In my pregame, I ALWAYS have the trail make the call on ALL OOB above the FTLE. It would be very rare that the lead will be looking anywhere near the area where the ball is and the trail will be on ball for the play and should be looking right at the OOB call. BITS referred to the "deer in the headlights" look that partners give each other at times (one of the things I hate) and, on this call, it can be avoided by having the official who is on ball make the call.

This is standard practice in my area and required a lot of concentration to break when I moved and refereed in another state fo a couple of years. I actually had one game where I was lead, the ball went OOB above the FTLE on my line, I was busy working my area and had no idea it went out, the ball was bounding OOB with my partner staring at it, and my partenr sat there watching the ball waiting for me to blow my whistle. Once the players stopped playing, I looked at my partner (who was still looking at the ball) and finally blew my whistle for the OOB. I had to ask for help, which my partner gave and we went on (looking like two morons IMO). At the end of the quarter, I asked my partner why he didn't blow his whistle and all he could say is that "it was your line" and I was waiting for you. I agreed that it was my line, but asked if we would have performed any better as a crew if he had blown the line and we continued to play without the awkward silence. IMO, he was so concerned about calling the lines as outlined that he helped us to lose credibility by staring at the ball and then signalling only after I asked for help. It was obvious that I didn't see the play and he looked like he didn't know what to do until I asked for help.

Just my opinion.

[jritchie]

Haven't called a 2-man game in 3 years, wouldn't know how to revert back to 2-man if I had too! They need to just go ahead and make it mandatory for all states, would make life so much easier for us officials!

[Danvrapp]

I've pregamed this before (even in 3-person...which this shouldn't have to happen) but if it goes to the non-calling official and s/he doesn't know, just make a confident call that keeps the ball in the front court. I hate to go to the arrow in this sitch.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Danvrapp

I've pregamed this before (even in 3-person...which this shouldn't have to happen) but if it goes to the non-calling official and s/he doesn't know, just make a confident call that keeps the ball in the front court. I hate to go to the arrow in this sitch.

So, make up something as opposed to doing the right thing?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Danvrapp

I've pregamed this before (even in 3-person...which this shouldn't have to happen) but if it goes to the non-calling official and s/he doesn't know, just make a confident call that keeps the ball in the front court. I hate to go to the arrow in this sitch.

Terrible advice. You're ignoring written rules and making up your own just to make yourself look better. You'll get dinged by an evaluator a heckuva lot harder for maybe screwing up an OOB call badly and giving one team an unfair advantage rather than just admitting you missed it and go with the arrow. You might get lucky some of the time but you won't get lucky all of the time.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by tref

so, make up something as opposed to doing the right thing?

+1

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Danvrapp

I've pregamed this before (even in 3-person...which this shouldn't have to happen) but if it goes to the non-calling official and s/he doesn't know, just make a confident call that keeps the ball in the front court. I hate to go to the arrow in this sitch.

I would rather pause a second and read the players to see if they give it away (which they frequently do). I'm sureashell am not going to guess, though.

[tref]

Oh s%!# he gave me 2 shot outs in 1 day, hell must have froze over! j/k

Honestly JR, you slapping me around over the years has inspired me to "know" my rules better & you saying what I wont accomplish provides motivation to get better. I know we may go back & forth, but I do listen to the knowledge that you drop on me... even though it has been quite harsh at times.
Thank you for all that you do!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by tref

Oh s%!# he gave me 2 shot outs in 1 day, hell must have froze over! j/k

Honestly JR, you slapping me around over the years has inspired me to "know" my rules better & you saying what I wont accomplish provides motivation to get better. I know we may go back & forth, but I do listen to the knowledge that you drop on me... even though it has been quite harsh at times.
Thank you for all that you do!

Tref, I had a mentor...and a very dear friend.... who was one tough motorcycle cop when I first met him. He got me into officiating football and basketball just before I turned 16 years old. He pushed me like you wouldn't believe. Anything that I've ever said to you was fairly minor compared to some of the things that he said to me. He had some very basic ideas on what was needed to be taught if I wanted to become better. One was that if I screwed up without a good reason, I was making not only him but our crew and maybe even our association look bad. We were always a crew and we had to officiate every game that way. He also stressed knowing the rules. He said you couldn't hope to apply them correctly if you didn't what you were supposed to be applying in the first place. Every game that I worked with him was exam night. Another thing that he stressed was that if I couldn't take it from him, how could I expect to be able to hold my temper and stay calm, cool, collected and in charge when all hell breaks loose in a game(which it inevitably does).

He was the best football official that I've ever worked with and was also in my top 10 when it came to basketball. He died a year ago and he is missed, and not only by me.

Hopefully when I go all JR on someone, I'm doing it from an officiating standpoint and not a personal standpoint. I honestly am trying to do it that way. I do get carried away sometimes but I also do care.

Thanks for the kind words. We now return to regular programming.

[Kelvin green]

Originally Posted by stripes

In my pregame, I ALWAYS have the trail make the call on ALL OOB above the FTLE. It would be very rare that the lead will be looking anywhere near the area where the ball is and the trail will be on ball for the play and should be looking right at the OOB call. BITS referred to the "deer in the headlights" look that partners give each other at times (one of the things I hate) and, on this call, it can be avoided by having the official who is on ball make the call.

This is standard practice in my area and required a lot of concentration to break when I moved and refereed in another state fo a couple of years. I actually had one game where I was lead, the ball went OOB above the FTLE on my line, I was busy working my area and had no idea it went out, the ball was bounding OOB with my partner staring at it, and my partenr sat there watching the ball waiting for me to blow my whistle. Once the players stopped playing, I looked at my partner (who was still looking at the ball) and finally blew my whistle for the OOB. I had to ask for help, which my partner gave and we went on (looking like two morons IMO). At the end of the quarter, I asked my partner why he didn't blow his whistle and all he could say is that "it was your line" and I was waiting for you. I agreed that it was my line, but asked if we would have performed any better as a crew if he had blown the line and we continued to play without the awkward silence. IMO, he was so concerned about calling the lines as outlined that he helped us to lose credibility by staring at the ball and then signalling only after I asked for help. It was obvious that I didn't see the play and he looked like he didn't know what to do until I asked for help.

Just my opinion.

Very well said!.

[constable]

If you are the lead and in proper position, it shouldn't happen that often- especially in transition if you are close to the line and not running blind.

That being said, if the ball does go OOB and you're unsure- whistle- stop clock, ask your partner for help. In my area the lead takes the call.