Dishonesty

bainsey · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 18, 2010, 12:34pm

A fellow official and I were recently talking about the dishonest things we hear from players and coaches. I don't hear such dishonesty very often, but it tends to make me angry pretty quickly on those rare occasions. (I won't rule out the possibility that people are being more dishonest than I think.)

What are some examples of dishonest behavior (from deception to outright lies) you can share, and how do you handle such things?

Adam · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 18, 2010, 12:38pm

Are you talking about stuff like, "I wasn't talking to you"? Or perhaps "No one has made her take out her earrings all year"? Or something more sinister?

Mark Padgett · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 18, 2010, 12:39pm

The most dishonest comment I hear from coaches is, "He got fouled."

bainsey · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 18, 2010, 03:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Are you talking about stuff like, "I wasn't talking to you"? Or perhaps "No one has made her take out her earrings all year"? Or something more sinister?

Anything you'd like, Snaq. Anything from a little BS, to intelligence-insulting whoppers, to flopping, if you'd like.

As for humor over forthright and calm, I'd also opt for the latter, but doesn't that typically depend upon how well you know the coach?

Adam · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 18, 2010, 04:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey

Anything you'd like, Snaq. Anything from a little BS, to intelligence-insulting whoppers, to flopping, if you'd like.

As for humor over forthright and calm, I'd also opt for the latter, but doesn't that typically depend upon how well you know the coach?

I don't see much that I could really consider "dishonest." The occasional flop from a player, but that's about it; but even then it's nothing like what Jeter pulled this year.

Mark Padgett · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 18, 2010, 04:10pm

OK,it's football, not basketball, but how about other teams faking defensive injuries on coach's orders to slow down the offense of the Oregon Ducks? There's videos all over the net. And, according to NCAA football rules, there's no penalty for it.

Seems like that scenario was named after the title of this thread.

Adam · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 18, 2010, 04:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

OK,it's football, not basketball, but how about other teams faking defensive injuries on coach's orders to slow down the offense of the Oregon Ducks? There's videos all over the net. And, according to NCAA football rules, there's no penalty for it.

Seems like that scenario was named after the title of this thread.

So you have proof that the coaches are teaching their players to fake injuries, as opposed to players being tired and taking an extra moment to catch their breath?

Jurassic Referee · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 18, 2010, 06:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

OK,it's football, not basketball, but how about other teams faking defensive injuries on coach's orders to slow down the offense of the Oregon Ducks? There's videos all over the net. And, according to NCAA football rules, there's no penalty for it.

Seems like that scenario was named after the title of this thread.

Football is the same as basketball. If a player goes down injured, they have to leave the game. There's rules in both sports fully covering the officials' duties in situations like that. And because the officials in both sports aren't doctors, we sureashell aren't qualified to judge whether a player is injured or faking it either. We let the people at the contest responsible for that duty do their job.

I'd never dream of accusing a player on the floor in a basketball game or on the field in a football game of faking an injury, no matter what I personally thought. And I've done football a few months longer than basketball. Any college official who tried to pull something like that would be back doing Saturday morning kiddie football in one heckuva hurry.

Little advice for any official....do NOT play God.

JMO

Back In The Saddle · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 18, 2010, 04:12pm

One play from a camp game stands out to me, mostly because I lost my cool over it. A1 gets a steal and is heading the other way for an uncontested layup. B1 chases after him and grabs him from behind. Clearly an intentional foul, and I signal it as such at the spot. Coach for B intercepts me on my way to the table and says, "He was trying to play the ball."

In my mind there's trying to work an official and then there's flat out lying. I have no patience or tolerance for the latter.

Jurassic Referee · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 18, 2010, 01:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey

A fellow official and I were recently talking about the dishonest things we hear from players and coaches. I don't hear such dishonesty very often, but it tends to make me angry pretty quickly on those rare occasions. (I won't rule out the possibility that people are being more dishonest than I think.)

What are some examples of dishonest behavior (from deception to outright lies) you can share, and how do you handle such things?

Players and coaches have been trying to influence us to give 'em an advantage not meant by rule since Naismith hung his first peach basket. It's just part of the game. And we have ample rules and procedures available to us to deal with their attempts. How they are handled usually depends on the line that each officials sets as to how much they'll let let the coaches/players get away with while trying to work us before doing something about it. And even though different officials might handle a similar situation completely differently, we should still judge the success of their individual method by the results. Iow, was the game kept under control and play not affected in any way?

Having said that, what any official should NEVER do when somebody is working them is to EVER get angry about it. It's our job to deal with the inevitable in a passionless, even-handed and neutral manner. Someone in the building has to be in control at all times and they pay us to be that someone. If you're losing your temper, then you ain't that "someone".

JMO.

Indianaref · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 18, 2010, 01:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Players and coaches have been trying to influence us to give 'em an advantage not meant by rule since Naismith hung his first peach basket. It's just part of the game. And we have ample rules and procedures available to us to deal with their attempts. How they are handled usually depends on the line that each officials sets as to how much they'll let let the coaches/players get away with while trying to work us before doing something about it. And even though different officials might handle a similar situation completely differently, we should still judge the success of their individual method by the results. Iow, was the game kept under control and play not affected in any way?

Having said that, what any official should NEVER do when somebody is working them is to EVER get angry about it. It's our job to deal with the inevitable in a passionless, even-handed and neutral manner. Someone in the building has to be in control at all times and they pay us to be that someone. If you're losing your temper, then you ain't that "someone".

JMO.

As always, +1. Someone has to be the adult on the floor, hopefully it's the official(s).

mbyron · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 18, 2010, 02:07pm

Dealing with a coach who's pushing the line of unsporting behavior is part of the 5% of officiating that really distinguishes the great officials. No single way of addressing it is right for everyone: some will defuse the situation with humor, some will speak to the coach forthrightly and calmly, some will back the coach down with a warning.

Getting angry does not deal with coach behavior, but is a symptom of getting worked and a response that goes away once one deals properly with the behavior.