The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   Substitution Question (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/59728-substitution-question.html)

Babyface Tue Nov 16, 2010 09:53am

Substitution Question
 
Team A request/granted a 60 second timeout. After approx. 1 minute, all 10 players from both teams come out of their respective huddles and get into postition on the court. My partner is moments away from putting the ball into play when coach of team B sends a player B6 to the scorers table. I tell B6 that she will have to wait until the next opportunity to sub. Coach says that the first horn had never sounded and we should not deny her entry. I am certain that about a minute had expired, the timer just neglected to sound the horn. Should the substitution been allowed?

Jurassic Referee Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:01am

The sub reported to the bench before the warning signal sounded. You have no rules justification to deny entry to that sub. See NFHS rule 3-3-1(a).

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Adam Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 701215)
The sub reported to the bench before the warning signal sounded. You have no rules justification to deny entry to that sub. See NFHS rule 3-3-1(a).

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Yep, and talk to the timer. They should have (of) sounded the horn at 45 seconds, and again at a minute.

SAK Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:20am

Preventative officiating: when the horn sounds (or should sound) I inform the teams that the horn has sounded. This should take care of the problem.

Adam Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAK (Post 701221)
Preventative officiating: when the horn sounds (or should sound) I inform the teams that the horn has sounded. This should take care of the problem.

Yep, and in middle school, AAU, YMCA, or similar games it's not uncommon to need to remind the table to hit the warning horn.

bob jenkins Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAK (Post 701221)
Preventative officiating: when the horn sounds (or should sound) I inform the teams that the horn has sounded. This should take care of the problem.

Second preventative officiating: When both teams come out, have the timer sound the first horn and then (after a short delay -- up to 15 seconds) the second horn.

Mark Padgett Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babyface (Post 701214)
I am certain that about a minute had expired, the timer just neglected to sound the horn.

You need a hornier timer. ;)

Back In The Saddle Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:33pm

So what if at 30 seconds into a full time out both teams are ready, but before the ball is put in play a sub comes to the table (assume before the 15 second horn would have normally sounded)? Do we allow that sub?

In NCAA, the calling team may end a TO early by notifying the official. The official then has the timer sound the warning horn immediately and the other team then has 15 seconds to be ready to play (5-14d). NFHS has no such provision.

Bob, would you routinely have the timer sound the warning horn immediately if both teams are breaking the huddle before the warning horn?

Jurassic Referee Tue Nov 16, 2010 03:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle (Post 701243)
So what if at 30 seconds into a full time out both teams are ready, but before the ball is put in play a sub comes to the table (assume before the 15 second horn would have normally sounded)? Do we allow that sub?

The administering official on the throw-in is supposed to blow their whistle on a throw-in after a TO or unusual delay. Use the whistle in lieu of the horn.

Back In The Saddle Tue Nov 16, 2010 05:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 701289)
The administering official on the throw-in is supposed to blow their whistle on a throw-in after a TO or unusual delay. Use the whistle in lieu of the horn.

So we'll allow the sub up until the whistle? That makes sense to me.

bob jenkins Tue Nov 16, 2010 05:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle (Post 701243)
So what if at 30 seconds into a full time out both teams are ready, but before the ball is put in play a sub comes to the table (assume before the 15 second horn would have normally sounded)? Do we allow that sub?

In NCAA, the calling team may end a TO early by notifying the official. The official then has the timer sound the warning horn immediately and the other team then has 15 seconds to be ready to play (5-14d). NFHS has no such provision.

Bob, would you routinely have the timer sound the warning horn immediately if both teams are breaking the huddle before the warning horn?

Yes I would. In NFHS, the TO can be shortened if both teams agree (or whatever teh specific wording is). If they both come out of the huddle, I'm considering that "agreeing" (or as having notified the officials, or ...)

Jurassic Referee Tue Nov 16, 2010 05:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle (Post 701332)
So we'll allow the sub up until the whistle? That makes sense to me.

Not definitively covered afaik, but it also makes sense to me to do that.

Adam Tue Nov 16, 2010 05:18pm

2-3!

Back In The Saddle Tue Nov 16, 2010 05:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 701341)
2-3!

Perhaps not entirely 2-3...If both teams are back on the court and the administering official is about to put the ball in play, then this would seem to come into play: "The substitute shall remain outside the boundary until an official beckons, whereupon he/she shall enter immediately. If the ball is about to become live, the beckoning signal should be withheld."

chseagle Tue Nov 16, 2010 05:33pm

Page 81 of the rules book in the 2010-2011 Major Rules Differences (NFHS vs. NCAA) states under time out(s) reduction for NFHS:

"Reduced if both teams are ready"

I've gotten in the habit of sounding the horn if one team is ready while the other is still in the huddle.

Concerning the timer not sounding the horn when they should, they are pre-occupied with something else, not properly trained, or not watching the stopwatch/time out timer.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:17pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1