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-   -   Is this in the book?... (must be on bench by 2nd quarter) (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/59715-book-must-bench-2nd-quarter.html)

BillyMac Sun Nov 14, 2010 03:29pm

The Forum ? Polite ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 700919)
Would her religion permit her to sit on the bench until the Sabbath is over (sundown). I'm assuming she's Jewish, but I don't know how the requirement works.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 700929)
Usually the issue is driving (or being driven) somewhere, as observant Jews won't use powered devices during Shabbat. Doing so is often interpreted as falling under the prohibition of working.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 700935)
Personal interest, really, in understanding the intricacies of various religions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 700940)
There are other religions with similiar beliefs regarding the Sabbath, not just Judaism.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 700941)
True, but the only other one that observes the Sabbath on Saturday I'm aware of is Seventh Day Adventist.

There's an old saying that you should never discuss sex, politics or religion in polite company.

Camron Rust Sun Nov 14, 2010 04:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 700942)
There's an old saying that you should never discuss sex, politics or religion in polite company.

But this is not exactly polite company.

Upward ref Sun Nov 14, 2010 05:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 700943)
But this is not exactly polite company.

+ 1 ! <>< :rolleyes:

SCalScoreKeeper Sun Nov 14, 2010 07:55pm

Call the UIL or appropriate Texas sanctioning body and the involved officials association and ask them about the rules regarding this incident. I don't believe there is a NFHS rule for this instance.I have served as a scorekeeper at the varsity level for several years (Entering 6'th BV season and 5'th GV season)and all my officials care about is that the number of people in the book match what is on court. I always put the entire roster in the book and then write DNP next to whoever is being held out for whatever reason.
In this case the officials would've counted the book and saw one more player listed than was warming up on court.This is fine-I had a player once miss the bus but still play in the game (She showed up midway through the first quarter). She was listed on the appropriate roster I submitted to the host scorekeeper at deadline and in both books.We had no issue.Curious to see what the sanctioning body's and official's chapter response is to this incident.Keep us posted!

Lukester Sun Nov 14, 2010 08:08pm

Thanks, everyone, for the feedback. I'll be emailing and/or calling the UIL (and maybe TASO?) tomorrow, looking for something in writing to keep on hand. Also will be checking w/ the other school to see about tracking down the officials' chapter or at least their assignor to touch base with them as well.
I will update the thread down the road.

BktBallRef Sun Nov 14, 2010 08:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 700941)
True, but the only other one that observes the Sabbath on Saturday I'm aware of is Seventh Day Adventist.

No, they're far from the only one. There are quite a few Sabbatarian organizations that observe the Sabbath from sundown Friday until sundown Saturday. Some are split groups of Seventh Day Adventist, but many have no affiliation with SDA. Hubert Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God was a huge Sabbath-keeping organization, although they operate under a different name now. There's even a Seveth Day Baptist denomination.

Jfpdi Sun Nov 14, 2010 09:36pm

I was at a preseason clinic this weekend and a question about having more players listed in the book then are present was a problem. The instructors stated it was not a problem and that if a kid showed up who is listed in the book there is no rule preventing the kid from playing.

Also listening to Seton Hall game today on the radio and one of the players showed up after the game started because of a death in his family and it was not an issue for him to play.

tjones1 Sun Nov 14, 2010 09:45pm

Yep... don't go looking for trouble. More than likely, the player is going to be able to play. Check local listings.

Splute Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:50pm

Never heard of such in Texas, UIL or NFHS. I can give you the name of the Rules Interpreter for the UIL if you like. We simply check bodies to names in the book; if there are more names that is okay. They may be in the locker room for all I know.

bainsey Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:43am

Lukester,

If it comes upon you to fight this rule, here's some possible ammunition: Look up NFHS rule 3-5-7.

To paraphrase, it says that jewelry is forbidden, unless worn for religious reasons (medical alert, too). If you have to, push that angle.

Lukester Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:48am

Update/resolution
 
Okay - bottom line as everyone here confirmed/suspected... no such rule w/ the U.I.L., or any other league body that might have anything to do w/ this game (nor is it anywhere in the NFHS rules, obviously).

Yesterday, the official who made the "ruling" tracked down a phone number for one of our team organization's board members and telephoned to say that he was wrong. He apologized for getting it wrong.

I was already in contact before that w/ the U.I.L. rules interpreter and hope to still get something in writing to keep on hand to avoid any such "phantom ruling" in the future...

Thanks again for all the quick input & confirmation.

Lkstr

Adam Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:58am

Thanks for the follow up. Give him credit for owning up to his mistake.

mbyron Tue Nov 16, 2010 01:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 701228)
Thanks for the follow up. Give him credit for owning up to his mistake.

Half credit. Cockamamie mistake.

Adam Tue Nov 16, 2010 01:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 701266)
Half credit. Cockamamie mistake.

Good point. I'd still like to know from which orifice this ruling was pulled.

DLH17 Tue Nov 16, 2010 03:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 700941)
True, but the only other one that observes the Sabbath on Saturday I'm aware of is Seventh Day Adventist.

I had a h.s. teammate that was a practicing SDA. He missed the entire first half of our team's championship game my senior year.

We made a nice comeback in the 2nd half when he arrived, but, too little too late.

We lost.

I have no hostility towards SDAs. :)


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