Calling Like Your Partner - Page 3

AK ref SE · #31 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 10, 2002, 04:37pm

CYO Butch-
Look at it this way, at half time, you are getting your backside handed to you by the other team.....would you appreciate a ref coming over to and say......hhhmmmm it seems that you are not calling the same type of play that the other coach is calling maybe you should talk it over.....
I would in my humble opinion...bite your tongue!

AK ref SE

mick · #32 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 10, 2002, 04:41pm

Quote:

Originally posted by CYO Butch
If by any strange happenstance I notice (or believe) that the refs are not consistent between themselves, is there anything I can do as a coach? For example, would I be out of line to ask one of the refs about it during halftime? For example would the following be out of line?

"I've noticed some difference in the way you two are calling certain things. Do you guys think you could talk it over?"

Would this approach be likely to offend? I know if there is some way to communicate without being confrontational, everybody is better off. On the other hand, am I better off biting my tongue and just hoping it will all even out in the end?

Coach,
I have no problem with a coach asking anything, particularly if he saw everything clearly from his spot "on the floor?" (You remember where the box is, Coach?"

)
If you are reasonable, you won't get a "T" 100% of the time.
mick

AK ref SE · #33 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 10, 2002, 04:41pm

Rut-
I am going to disagree on one point.....we are partners out there....I believe we are judged as one(Partners)....not as individuals....however saying that.....the assignors/evaluators will look at us as individuals or should look at us as individuals.

AK ref SE

JRutledge · #34 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 10, 2002, 05:05pm

Quote:

Originally posted by AK ref SE
Rut-
I am going to disagree on one point.....we are partners out there....I believe we are judged as one(Partners)....not as individuals....however saying that.....the assignors/evaluators will look at us as individuals or should look at us as individuals.

AK ref SE

You are right that we are partners. But if you cannot perform as in individual, you will not stay or move up. Yes we do have to work together, but we have to be able to hold our own and do our own job. We cannot call things just because your partner call something. If he is wrong, it is not good to be wrong with him. Someone who is calling their first season in a league is not going to be given the same rope or leeway as someone that has been in the league for several years.

When I got hired in the leagues I got hired, it was not because of the crews I worked with, it was for what I could do on my own. You will ultimately be judged as an individual.

Peace

AK ref SE · #35 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 10, 2002, 05:34pm

Rut-
I agree with you on being an individual...moving up....calling your game.....The point the I was trying to make.....besides the assignor/evaluator and maybe other officials...we are looked at as a crew.....the calls/no calls that are partners makes reflects on us as a crew.
JMHO

AK ref SE

mick · #36 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 10, 2002, 09:21pm

Quote:

Originally posted by AK ref SE
....the calls/no calls that are partners makes reflects on us as a crew.

AK ref SE,
I agree with that observation.
In fact, if we could pick our own partners, I would applaud the fact that it occurs.
mick

Edited out brain cramps.

[Edited by mick on Oct 10th, 2002 at 09:49 PM]

Dan_ref · #37 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 10, 2002, 10:56pm

Quote:

Originally posted by theboys
Speaking as a non-referee, I gotta tell ya, its interesting to hear these kinds of issues from a referee's perspective.

As a coach, what I ask for from refs are consistency and fairness. If one ref is making the majority of the calls, it not only looks bad, it can also call into question those two factors. I know, I know, I'm just a howling monkey, but its true.

The points you make about using the pre-game and in-game play stoppages to discuss philosophical differences are critical to avoiding such circumstances.

I understand the points some of you make about avoiding being labeled as wishy-washy, etc. They're valid points. Just be prepared, right or wrong, for more abuse than usual if you and your partner can't come to a workable compromise.

I'm a little surprised at the amount of disagreement over this post. To me this is key to having a good game - all the officials need to be in sync, and if we're not we need to adjust, somehow. Why is this not a given?

Dan_ref · #38 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 10, 2002, 11:04pm

Quote:

Originally posted by CYO Butch
If by any strange happenstance I notice (or believe) that the refs are not consistent between themselves, is there anything I can do as a coach? For example, would I be out of line to ask one of the refs about it during halftime? For example would the following be out of line?

"I've noticed some difference in the way you two are calling certain things. Do you guys think you could talk it over?"

Would this approach be likely to offend? I know if there is some way to communicate without being confrontational, everybody is better off. On the other hand, am I better off biting my tongue and just hoping it will all even out in the end?

If you asked me this I might just ask you for specific examples, so you better be prepared. Or I might just shrug my shoulders, say I don't see it that way and walk away. In either case I'll talk it over with the crew at the next dead ball, we might agree or we might just roll our eyes. Anyway, if you think you're getting the sh1tty end of the stick speak up, but don't be a jerk about it.

rainmaker · #39 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 10, 2002, 11:09pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
I'm a little surprised at the amount of disagreement over this post. To me this is key to having a good game - all the officials need to be in sync, and if we're not we need to adjust, somehow. Why is this not a given?

Dan -- I've just read straight through this whole post, and I don't see that anyone disagrees with the statement, "To have a good game, all the officials need to be in sync." It's just that we disagree how to get there and how hard to push when it isn't working.

I'm still learning to "call my own game", and am not very good at adjusting yet. But, when I am working with a less experienced partner (there are a few of these around!), I do point out the importance of working off the same page, and I keep discussing it throughout the game, if necessary. If they object, I back off some and adjust a little. If a partner tells me I'm calling too tight, I ask for some compromise -- I'll loosen up a little if you'll call the whatever a little more.

The hardest is when the partner is calling things based on emotion and is inconsistent himself. Then I just remember mick's sage words, repeated often during the season,

Get in,
Get done,
Get out!
Period.

Dan_ref · #40 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 10, 2002, 11:24pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
I'm a little surprised at the amount of disagreement over this post. To me this is key to having a good game - all the officials need to be in sync, and if we're not we need to adjust, somehow. Why is this not a given?

Dan -- I've just read straight through this whole post, and I don't see that anyone disagrees with the statement, "To have a good game, all the officials need to be in sync." It's just that we disagree how to get there and how hard to push when it isn't working.

Mmmm, maybe...maybe comments like "call your own game" "be an individual to move up", things like that stuck out to me more than to you.

Quote:

I'm still learning to "call my own game", and am not very good at adjusting yet. But, when I am working with a less experienced partner (there are a few of these around!), I do point out the importance of working off the same page, and I keep discussing it throughout the game, if necessary. If they object, I back off some and adjust a little. If a partner tells me I'm calling too tight, I ask for some compromise -- I'll loosen up a little if you'll call the whatever a little more.

Pretty much what I'm talking about, as far as I'm concerned you're doing it exactly right.
Quote:

The hardest is when the partner is calling things based on emotion and is inconsistent himself. Then I just remember mick's sage words, repeated often during the season,

Get in,
Get done,
Get out!
Period.

Oh boy, you got that right!

theboys · #41 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 11, 2002, 08:15am

Ow, ow, ouch.

I apologize if my comments were construed as patronizing. I in no way meant them in that way.

I have very rarely been in a situation where I thought the officials weren't on the same page. On those rare occasions it has been "comforting" to see the officials talking to one another during breaks (especially when they're not pointing and gesturing at me!), and appear to be discussing game management. Shoot, they might have actually been talking about where to go for a beer after the game, but, perception makes a difference. As a coach, I appreciate the way you work together to make the game flow more smoothly.

And, I know this is a bit off-topic, but I wanted to address a comment mick made. If I got it right, I think he was saying coaches don't recognize differences in officials. To a degree he's right, because the vast majority of officials call similarly. But, we've had refs who do have "pet" calls. We've had one who is a real stickler for travel calls. The first time I had him I got into all kinds of trouble. After that, I knew what to expect, so was much more refined. Just a growler monkey!

Last, I don't think I'll ever post on the "other site". My ego couldn't take it.