Calling Like Your Partner - Page 2

rockyroad · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 10, 2002, 11:41am

So getting back to the original topic - are there things any of us do or try in order to get partners "on the same page"???? One of the things I have tried - with varying degrees of success (usually dependent on partner's experience level) is to simply ask questions during a time-out..."Hey partner, what are you seeing in the paint? Am I missing something in there?" Or "Hey, I'm really uncomfortable with the amount of contact in the paint. Are you feeling the same way?" Sometimes all it takes is getting the other official to realize there is a concern, and then they step it up...any other ideas out there???

JRutledge · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 10, 2002, 12:05pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rockyroad
So getting back to the original topic - are there things any of us do or try in order to get partners "on the same page"???? One of the things I have tried - with varying degrees of success (usually dependent on partner's experience level) is to simply ask questions during a time-out..."Hey partner, what are you seeing in the paint? Am I missing something in there?" Or "Hey, I'm really uncomfortable with the amount of contact in the paint. Are you feeling the same way?" Sometimes all it takes is getting the other official to realize there is a concern, and then they step it up...any other ideas out there???

I totally agree that you should communicate with your partner, but you still should not spend time trying to mirror your partners calls. Even if you see something in the paint, does not necessarily mean the calls should change because of it.

Peace

mick · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 10, 2002, 12:10pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rockyroad
So getting back to the original topic - are there things any of us do or try in order to get partners "on the same page"???? One of the things I have tried - with varying degrees of success (usually dependent on partner's experience level) is to simply ask questions during a time-out..."Hey partner, what are you seeing in the paint? Am I missing something in there?" Or "Hey, I'm really uncomfortable with the amount of contact in the paint. Are you feeling the same way?" Sometimes all it takes is getting the other official to realize there is a concern, and then they step it up...any other ideas out there???

Yeah, dj,
During dead ball time we do those those things.

And something like, "The coach has been asking us to":

"...look for handchecking."
"...watch the grabbing."
"...call more traveling."
"...look for over-the-backs."

Also,
"I didn't see your fist. I didn't know what you had."
"Could you help me with a direction so I know where to go?"
"What did you see over there?"

With regular partners, it's much different. Sometimes a joke, a pretty face, ...most times nothing.

mick

stan-MI · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 10, 2002, 01:12pm

Switching on all fouls per the manual is the best way to balance out the calls, when you have a partner that calls a game tighter or looser than you. I don't regularly work with the same partner or crew. Sometimes during a break, I might tell my crew, "We've got to tighten up a little" or "I've let a little too much contact go." On the floor, I try not to tell my partner directly that he's screwing up the game. By blaming myself, or taking joint responsibility, I hope to send a message. In the lockerroom, at halftime or after the game, I'm more direct.

I've never had a partner tell me to lighten up on my whistle. I have had them tell me to go out and get certain calls. That's fine. I take no offense. But the "veteran JV" official usually is a hopeless case.

AK ref SE · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 10, 2002, 02:23pm

I have had a partner over the last couple years, that everytime that I call with him, It seems that we are never on the same page. At first I tried to adjust to his game, Well those games just got uglier and uglier. So I decide to call my game the best way I knew how. I watch my primary area, called what I saw, did not try to even things up or make calls that simply weren't there. If he had 20 calls and I had none or vice versus so be it. There will partners out there that we are in complete harmony with, and then we will have partners that are not. Just call your game to the best of your ability and it will all come out in the end. I agree with the person who made the comment about the evaluator in the crowd, because that happened to me early on. I tried to mirror my partner and I got chewed up and spit out, and was told by the evaluator that you need to deal with your game!

AK ref SE

rockyroad · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 10, 2002, 02:52pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge

I totally agree that you should communicate with your partner, but you still should not spend time trying to mirror your partners calls. Even if you see something in the paint, does not necessarily mean the calls should change because of it.

Peace [/B]

I don't think I ever advocated mirroring anyone, but if a game is too physical I will certainly try to get my partner to step it up some...having said that, if one of my partners makes a call at one end, and then I have a play at the other end that looks the same, feels the same, sounds the same, smells the same, etc - for the sake of crew integrity I need to call it the same as my partner did...

JRutledge · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 10, 2002, 02:58pm

Quote:

Originally posted by AK ref SE
I have had a partner over the last couple years, that everytime that I call with him, It seems that we are never on the same page. At first I tried to adjust to his game, Well those games just got uglier and uglier. So I decide to call my game the best way I knew how. I watch my primary area, called what I saw, did not try to even things up or make calls that simply weren't there. If he had 20 calls and I had none or vice versus so be it. There will partners out there that we are in complete harmony with, and then we will have partners that are not. Just call your game to the best of your ability and it will all come out in the end. I agree with the person who made the comment about the evaluator in the crowd, because that happened to me early on. I tried to mirror my partner and I got chewed up and spit out, and was told by the evaluator that you need to deal with your game!

AK ref SE

I had a scrimmage last year where I called 6 fouls and my partner called none for the entire half. If I mirrored my partner, I would have called nothing. Some of my calls were in dual areas and my partner did not blow their whistle for anything except obvious out of bounds calls. My partner made a comment to me and said "I do not call the same game as you do." Ya think? I am of "the no harm no foul" ideal (not serious you get the idea). I do not just call contact as a foul. And almost every foul I called was in line with the rules (women's college, handchecking for example). But in all fairness to my partner, I had more experience than they did. But it would did not look good if I did not call anything that day. That means we would not have a single foul called the entire half.

Peace

JRutledge · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 10, 2002, 03:04pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rockyroad

I don't think I ever advocated mirroring anyone, but if a game is too physical I will certainly try to get my partner to step it up some...having said that, if one of my partners makes a call at one end, and then I have a play at the other end that looks the same, feels the same, sounds the same, smells the same, etc - for the sake of crew integrity I need to call it the same as my partner did...

I respectfully disagree. Your integrity is in more question, when you make calls just to be on the same page with your partner. Just because action happens on one end does not mean that the other action is the same. I have to make calls regardless of what my partner does. I always tell my partners in a pregame, "call what you see." That is all I can say or anyone can expect.

Peace

rockyroad · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 10, 2002, 03:10pm

It is exactly because of the fact that my integrity is on the line that I need to make the effort to be "in synch" with my partners...again, I am not saying that I will make up calls, or try to mirror them if they aren't calling anything...but the integrity of myself and my partners goes right out the window when the exact same play is called in two (or more) different ways each time it happens...

mick · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 10, 2002, 03:32pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rockyroad
It is exactly because of the fact that my integrity is on the line that I need to make the effort to be "in synch" with my partners...again, I am not saying that I will make up calls, or try to mirror them if they aren't calling anything...but the integrity of myself and my partners goes right out the window when the exact same play is called in two (or more) different ways each time it happens...

dj,

That is sometimes a hard line to follow, especially when your partner kicks a rule.

example: a jump shot get touched hard enough to stop the release - partner calls a travel. (You won't make that call, like you said, because it ain't right)

example: a jump stop and your partner calls a travel - same ol', same ol'

example: dribbler gets lightly measured once, partner calls a handcheck - I find it hard to believe you'll follow your partner's lead.

On the level that you officiate, I would guess your partner that is screwing up better follow your lead.

mick

JRutledge · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 10, 2002, 03:39pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rockyroad
It is exactly because of the fact that my integrity is on the line that I need to make the effort to be "in synch" with my partners...again, I am not saying that I will make up calls, or try to mirror them if they aren't calling anything...but the integrity of myself and my partners goes right out the window when the exact same play is called in two (or more) different ways each time it happens...

I am sure you are a wonderful official. I have no reason to think you are not. But I feel like and assignor or evaluator will look at your situations and see "two incompetent officials" rather than just one if you try to do what your partner does. Calls are very personal. And in basketball you will be ultimately judged as individual regardless of what our partners might do. I just think you call your game, if your partner belongs he or she will show it by what they call. But then again you always need to follow your assignor and evaluators.

Peace

rockyroad · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 10, 2002, 04:24pm

Quote:

Originally posted by mick

example: a jump shot get touched hard enough to stop the release - partner calls a travel. (You won't make that call, like you said, because it ain't right)

example: a jump stop and your partner calls a travel - same ol', same ol'

example: dribbler gets lightly measured once, partner calls a handcheck - I find it hard to believe you'll follow your partner's lead.

On the level that you officiate, I would guess your partner that is screwing up better follow your lead.

mick

[/B]

Mick. I wouldn't make those same calls, obviously, because they were wrong...and I would - at the first opportunity - try to get my partners' head in the game!

I guess I am thinking more along the lines of the close block/charge calls...if my U-1 has a close one and calls a charge, and two minutes later I have one that looks pretty much exactly the same, well then I had better have a good reason before I come out with a block call...if my partner totally kicked the first call, then no - I won't totally kick my call to keep it even...but like I said before - if it looks the same, etc., call it the same...

CYO Butch · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 10, 2002, 04:29pm

If by any strange happenstance I notice (or believe) that the refs are not consistent between themselves, is there anything I can do as a coach? For example, would I be out of line to ask one of the refs about it during halftime? For example would the following be out of line?

"I've noticed some difference in the way you two are calling certain things. Do you guys think you could talk it over?"

Would this approach be likely to offend? I know if there is some way to communicate without being confrontational, everybody is better off. On the other hand, am I better off biting my tongue and just hoping it will all even out in the end?

mick · #14 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 10, 2002, 04:33pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rockyroad

I guess I am thinking more along the lines of the close block/charge calls...if my U-1 has a close one and calls a charge, and two minutes later I have one that looks pretty much exactly the same, well then I had better have a good reason before I come out with a block call....

dj,
Now, yer screwin' with me.
I'll bet my Foxes that you'll call what you call because of what you saw and not what your partner thought he saw.

mick

Tim Roden · #15 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 10, 2002, 04:34pm

In CYO, you are not necessarily getting the best refs in the world to begin with. A little talking won't hurt a thing. You can get one of two reactions. If you ask correctly you will get. "Yes coach I hear ya." If you don't then one of the officials will get upset and drop the T. Either way you are getting a point across. If you see one of the officials trying to talk with the other official, then you don't need to say anything. The first official realizes what is going on and he is trying to do something about it.