Blarge administration

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

,
Everyone, as far as I know, agrees that this is the proper way to do it. But, in this video, if you are the C and you are positive that the correct call is a block, it seems to me that you have made a ruling, whether anyone else knows what it is or not. The case play says if you rule one thing and your partner rules the other, report both. But everyone here says you don't have to report both unless conflicting signals are given. If that's the way everyone does it (it isn't) fine, but it provokes more questions. What if, in this video, the L posts and holds, and the C quickly signals block, then realizes he kicked it. Can he change his own call/signal/ruling or not?

To me, you are trying to be cute with the wording. No one that I have ever been around had made this argument but you. No one!!! Not at the college level that has the same rule and not at the HS level where I work and train officials all over my state. We talk about this to avoid having to be in this situation and no one considers a "ruling" until you signal. If you do not signal you can act like you agree with your partner. Usually, we should have the official signal that is in their primary or we have decided should take the call (like the lead in the paint). But you are telling me because in my mind I have a position on what should be called, we should then insist on sticking with that even if it is different than my partner because "in my mind" I feel it was different, then we should report that foul anyway?

I know this is stuff you have said this before, but that is absolutely silly. And that is why people are kind of dismissive of that position that you only hold it seems. Maybe where you live people do not do it that way, but everyone I know in multiple states seems to do it that way.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... we have decided should take the call (like the lead in the paint).

My pregame always includes (even if I'm the umpire) a reminder to not give a preliminary signal if we have double fists. We always let the lead take the call, give the preliminary, go to the reporting area, and report the foul.

A double whistle with one open hand and one fist means that we get together to figure out what happened first with language such as, "I saw your foul but he traveled before the foul", or, "I saw your travel but he traveled because he got fouled". Same thing involving one held ball signal, and one "other". And don't believe for a second that some coaches aren't smart enough, and aren't observant enough, to question two different hand signals on a double whistle. They're not as dumb as they look. Same thing with two different preliminary signals on a double whistle, double fist. Some coaches, maybe not all coaches, but some coaches will notice.

Of course the "double fist hold the preliminary" scenario assumes that we heard each other's whistle and/or observed the other's fists. In a really loud gym, with several players between my partner and me, and with both of us trying to sell a block call, or charge call, well, Robert Burns said it best, "The best laid plans of mice and men go oft awry".

[JRutledge]

If coaches have been around the game they can read some things from us. But if we have a violation and a foul and signal as such, that makes more sense to explain and there are no rules mandating us to go with both calls. Even a simple double whistle is not a problem. But once we signal, we have a rule that tells us what to do. Only JAR seems to be taking this position and if that is the best he can do, then I am good with calling a double foul. But I never want this to happen and avoid this at all costs. When I am the outside official, I try my best to hold as long as I can until I am sure someone else does not have a whistle. When someone has a whistle, I freeze. Then we decide who had it in their primary and who had the best look. Usually pre-gamed but if not I know what I am not doing.

Peace