Hand-check Question

[bob jenkins]

I agree with Camron -- there's no reason this couldn't be a hand-check foul.

From the NCAA Women's POE: "On a drive to the basket when the dribbler has a hand placed on her, officials need to be aware of whether the dribbler has one more dribble to take. If so, officials should have a patient whistle and call the hand-checking personal foul as the player shoots."

[rainmaker]

I agree with Camron and Bob. J about what to call the foul, but I would add a little different perspective on how to handle the whole situation. If the foul happened before continuation could be given, then the shot shouldn't count, and the penalty would be ball oob or the 1-&-1 or whatever. But then, too, THE WHISTLE SHOULD HAVE BEEN BLOWN BEFORE THE SHOT WAS COMPLETED. I understand waiting till the whole play is finished, but if the ref is going to wait, the shot should count. If it wasn't serious enough contact to call at the moment, it wasn't serious enough to call. Since this shot was made, maybe it would have been a good no-call.

[rockyroad]

Thanks for the POE, Bob, and I agree whole-heartedly that on a drive to the basket, that's what you do...was this play really a drive to the basket? The way the hand-checking POE's have always been explained to me is that it applies to the player who starts outside and drives to the basket...a one-dribble drop step or spin move, after the player has picked up their dribble??? Shouldn't be a hand-check call then, should it??

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by rainmaker
I agree with Camron and Bob. J about what to call the foul, but I would add a little different perspective on how to handle the whole situation. If the foul happened before continuation could be given, then the shot shouldn't count, and the penalty would be ball oob or the 1-&-1 or whatever. But then, too, THE WHISTLE SHOULD HAVE BEEN BLOWN BEFORE THE SHOT WAS COMPLETED. I understand waiting till the whole play is finished, but if the ref is going to wait, the shot should count. If it wasn't serious enough contact to call at the moment, it wasn't serious enough to call. Since this shot was made, maybe it would have been a good no-call.

Good point. How about this: if the shot was TAKEN - missed
or made - maybe it's a good no-call. Assuming the foul
came before the shot and there was no foul on the shot of
course.

[LarryS]

Are you sure it doesn't matter what we call the foul, as long as A foul is called?

I have been told that to move to the varsity level, then to higher varsity games, you need to catch the eye of evaluators and the varsity coach that may be watching the JV game and show him you know what you're doing. Their point being that if you call a foul and report illegal use of the hands instead of a push, the coach/evaluator may think you do not have a firm grasp on the rules?

Just a thought.

[mick]

dj,
I like to use hand checking, it is a descriptive signal and tells just what the fouler did with one hand.
I see no reason not to call a hand check in your case, but if I am on the court with you, I'll be thinking the ball handler was fouled on the dribble.
mick

[RecRef]

Originally posted by rockyroad

Post player A5 has ball in low block and spins around defender B5...A5 takes one dribble, then their legal step and goes up for a lay-in, which goes in...we have a whistle, foul called on B5, and rookie waves off shot and basket and calls B5 for a hand-check...gives A ball oob under the basket...

Afterward, I make the comment that it should NOT have been a handcheck call, but a push, and count the basket and give them one shot, or else call nothing at all...

To add a new wrinkle to the answers already given - Though the play itself was different, a few weeks back I saw an Woman’s NCAA tape during a class that advocated calling an intentional foul when the move has started to the basket and the defender is clearly not playing the ball.

In this case, two points for the made basket, two shots for the intentional, and A getting the ball back would make B5 think long and hard about handchecking again.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by RecRef


To add a new wrinkle to the answers already given - Though the play itself was different, a few weeks back I saw an Woman’s NCAA tape during a class that advocated calling an intentional foul when the move has started to the basket and the defender is clearly not playing the ball.

In this case, two points for the made basket, two shots for the intentional, and A getting the ball back would make B5 think long and hard about handchecking again.

Mmmm, I don't know about that, but I imagine it would get
your women's NCAA assignor thinking long & hard about your
future with him.

[rockyroad]

Actually it is in the women's POE's for this season...it is pretty specific in that it only involves a drive to the basket when the defender is handchecking from behind trying to get the official to call the handcheck and effectively stop the offensive player from getting off a shot...so the original play in this post would not fall under this category...

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by rockyroad
Actually it is in the women's POE's for this season...it is pretty specific in that it only involves a drive to the basket when the defender is handchecking from behind trying to get the official to call the handcheck and effectively stop the offensive player from getting off a shot...so the original play in this post would not fall under this category...

I think it is saying that you can still have handchecking when the player is shooting and that officials should be patient and not take away a good shot opportunity...not that a handcheck can only occur on the drive.

That said, I would personally call the original case a push.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by rockyroad
Actually it is in the women's POE's for this season...it is pretty specific in that it only involves a drive to the basket when the defender is handchecking from behind trying to get the official to call the handcheck and effectively stop the offensive player from getting off a shot...so the original play in this post would not fall under this category...

Handchecking from behind? Isn't that a push?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Handchecking from behind? Isn't that a push?

Maybe it's an intentional push

[mick]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Maybe it's an intentional push

If it is hard enough, ...that works.