3-5-2c discussion

[constable]

We had a meeting last night. We discussed the knee brace rule. For a long time our association wanted the braces covered with a sleeve even though the rule didn't specify. We opted against it last night. It was determined setting aside that rule is no different from setting aside any other rule.



Any other associations had similar discussion ?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by constable

1) We had a meeting last night. We discussed the knee brace rule. For a long time our association wanted the braces covered with a sleeve even though the rule didn't specify. We opted against it last night.

2) It was determined setting aside that rule is no different from setting aside any other rule.

1) The rule specifies that exposed hinges only must be covered. I'd be very careful altering a safety rule without approval from your state governing body.

2) Again, I'd be very, very careful with this. Anybody altering a safety rule is leaving themselves wide-open imo. Telling players that they can't participate even though the equipment that you're deeming illegal is regarded as legal by both the NFHS rulesmakers and your state governing body might be opening up helluva can of worms. State bodies in my experience kinda frown on their member officiating associations making up their own rules. I'd recommend asking somebody at the state level before implementing anything.

Whoops..see you're from Ontario, Canada. In that case I'd check with your provincial governing body.

[BillyMac]

Knee and ankle braces which are unaltered from the manufacturer’s original design/production are permitted and do not require any additional padding/covering.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Knee and ankle braces which are unaltered from the manufacturer’s original design/production are permitted and do not require any additional padding/covering.

2010-11 NFHS MAJOR EDITORIAL CHANGES: Clarified the requirements for guards, casts and braces and that a protective face mask shall be worn molded to the face.

I just realized that this thread is probably based on this editorial change. We haven't had our interpretation/rule change/mechanics change meeting yet. I was wondering when the "exposed hinges on the knee brace rule" got changed? I guess that it was very recently.

[Back In The Saddle]

Here's this year's: "Knee and ankle braces which are unaltered from the manufacturer’s original design are permitted and do not require any additional padding/covering. Equipment which could cut or cause an opponent to have an abrasion is also always illegal and, therefore, is prohibited."

This is last year's: "Knee and ankle braces are permitted, but all exposed hinges must be covered. Equipment which could cut or cause an opponent to have an abrasion is also always illegal and, therefore, is prohibited."

So there is no longer a specific requirement for exposed hinges to be covered, but there is still a provision allowing the referee to rule it illegal if there is something about the brace that could cause a cut, which is what (I believe) we worried about with exposed hinges.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Here's this year's: "Knee and ankle braces which are unaltered from the manufacturer’s original design are permitted and do not require any additional padding/covering. Equipment which could cut or cause an opponent to have an abrasion is also always illegal and, therefore, is prohibited."

This is last year's: "Knee and ankle braces are permitted, but all exposed hinges must be covered. Equipment which could cut or cause an opponent to have an abrasion is also always illegal and, therefore, is prohibited".

Thanks for the comparison.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The rule specifies that exposed hinges only must be covered.

Which rule?

[constable]

just compared 2009 to 2010. There is a slight change.

[Jurassic Referee]

Has case book play 3.5SitA changed too? I've just got an older rule/case book at my 'puter. That case play says also that all exposed hinges need to be covered.

[Mark Padgett]

I had a kid once tell me he had to keep his entire knee brace covered to keep it warm because he had knee-monia!

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Has case book play 3.5SitA changed too? I've just got an older rule/case book at my 'puter. That case play says also that all exposed hinges need to be covered.

*3.5 SITUATION A: What are the standards which the referee must use in determining
whether a team member will be permitted to wear certain equipment?
RULING: There are three criteria which determine the legality of equipment. First,
any equipment which, in the judgment of the referee, is dangerous to others. In
this respect, elbow, wrist, hand, finger or forearm guards, casts or braces made
of hard and unyielding leather, plaster, plastic, metal or any other hard substance
shall always be declared illegal “even though covered with soft padding.” Thus,
the rule does not permit that this provision be set aside. The prohibition of the
use of hard substance material does not apply to the upper arm, or shoulder if
the hard material is appropriately padded so that in the judgment of the referee it
is not hazardous to others. Knee and ankle braces which are unaltered from the
manufacturer’s original design are permitted and do not require any additional
padding/covering. Equipment which could cut or cause an opponent to have an
abrasion is also always illegal and, therefore, is prohibited.
It will be noted that the listing of equipment which is always illegal is not inclusive.
It cannot identify every item which is not permitted. The generalization is
required since the referee’s judgment is necessary. The second standard provides
that “any equipment which is unnatural and designed to increase the player’s
height or reach, or to gain an advantage, shall not be used.” The referee is given
no leeway here and judgment is not required. The third criterion provides that
equipment used must be appropriate for basketball and not be confusing. In this
sense, gloves, football face masks and helmets are not acceptable. A protector for
a broken nose, even though made of hard material, is permissible provided it is
worn molded to the face with no protrusions. Eyeglass protectors are considered
appropriate equipment for basketball provided they meet the qualifications for
legal equipment, including the third criterion.
Religious and medical-alert medals are not considered jewelry and may be
worn provided: 1) religious medals are taped and worn under the uniform, necklaces/
bracelets must be removed or also taped and completely under the uniform;
and 2) medical-alert medals are taped to the body (portions may be visible to
show medical information), necklaces/bracelets must be removed or also completely
taped. An artificial limb may not be worn unless it has been specifically
approved by the state association and such authorization statement is available
to the referee.
The referee must rule on the legality of any piece of equipment which is worn
to protect an injury. Protective equipment must be individually inspected and
approved using the criteria outlined. In the case of headwear for medical,
cosmetic or religious reasons, the state association may approve upon proper
documentation as in 3-5-3 Exception a.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by constable

We had a meeting last night. We discussed the knee brace rule. For a long time our association wanted the braces covered with a sleeve even though the rule didn't specify. We opted against it last night. It was determined setting aside that rule is no different from setting aside any other rule.



Any other associations had similar discussion ?

Of all of the thousands of topics you could discuss at a basketball meeting and your association chooses to talk about additional sleeving of a knee brace that meets all current rules and safety standards. No other pressing issues happening in the basketball world in Canada?

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Of all of the thousands of topics you could discuss at a basketball meeting and your association chooses to talk about additional sleeving of a knee brace that meets all current rules and safety standards. No other pressing issues happening in the basketball world in Canada?

Shoot, more than half the discussions we have in our meetings is about uniforms, hair control devices, etc. Basically stuff that has nothing to do with what happens on the floor. I mean, does it really affect the outcome of a game is there is more than one manufacturers logo on the socks? Please!

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by Judtech

Shoot, more than half the discussions we have in our meetings is about uniforms, hair control devices, etc. Basically stuff that has nothing to do with what happens on the floor. I mean, does it really affect the outcome of a game is there is more than one manufacturers logo on the socks? Please!

I forgot about the man. logo...my favorite!!!

[constable]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Of all of the thousands of topics you could discuss at a basketball meeting and your association chooses to talk about additional sleeving of a knee brace that meets all current rules and safety standards. No other pressing issues happening in the basketball world in Canada?

We do this thing every year it's called reviewing rule changes.

Try it some time, it will make you a better official.