Whistle for a sub?
 

Do you use your whistle when calling in a sub or not and why? I have my opinion and would like to here others. While I know this is a small detail, I think some uniformity would be nice in our association. If it matters, we have table crew who are part of our association so they go through training.

While I'm at it, what do you think about officials reporting with two hands in a high school game? This may be a total contradiction to my first question, but I'm more concerned with officials getting calls right - which is a problem.

I never blew the whistle for subs till I moved to Dallas, where they require it. Now that I'm used to it, I do it all the time. I moved to another association nearby where they don't require it, but I am still doing it. I don't like blowing the whistle more than necessary, but I like it even less when I have to blow my whistle because my partner didn't look to see my hand raised while I was bringing in subs and he's handing the ball for a throw in.

As far as reporting mechanics, I think when working high school ball you should use high school mechanics.

I bring subs with a whistle. Sometimes in a crowded, loud gym we get distracted (coaches, hot moms, etc) during dead balls. I think the whistle catches everyones attention & prevents the ball from being inbounded with too many players on the court.

Two handed reporting in HS? I dont, some say its disrespecting the HS game by doing so...

I have changed my mind a few times on this over the years. I do blow my whistle most of the time for these as I would rather do that than have the horn buzzed. A lot of time the table blows the buzzer when it is not warranted and I tell the table to let us bring them in and no buzzer. I will not do it all the time or even in many situations. But it gets the players and official's attention on some level. But it is only used when it is needed, not every time there is a substitution.

I forgot to answer this in my first post. I do not like it as it will be misconstrued too often by high school people at the table. I think that is why the mechanic says to use one hand. I think I will pass if they ever say we can do this. We do not use it in the leagues at the college level I work, so I do not see the big deal. Let women and NBA officials stay separate.

Peace

NCAA-W instructed us a few years back to whistle EVERY time you bring in subs. I think its a good idea because it lets your partners know that you have something going on. We all know there are times we or our partners get in a hurry and rush a throwin. A quick whistle gets everyones attention and can save you some embarassment.

As for two hand mechanics...The last time I used 1 hand was at the State Tournament, other than that, you'll always see me with two. For me, it has nothing to do with disrespecting the game, it has to do with me working other types of games which require it. I don't want to change my normal rhythms and habits on the court. It's hard enough with rule differences, two hand reporting just seems very trivial to me.

Just my $.02 worth! ;)

Using the whistle for subs will depend on whether or not it's necessary (like in transition, for instance). Most of the times on crews I've worked with either T or C will hold their hand up and beckon the sub(s) in. We pre-game to make eye contact before we inbound the ball so we don't get caught unaware during these situations.

We use two-hand reporting for fouls and that was a switch for me when I started back officiating a couple of years ago. When first getting started officiating it was drilled into my head to (1) always use one hand and (2) to make sure it's off to the side and not in front of your face. It's stupid but going to two hands to report numbers required more than a little practice and the first year doing it I sometimes resorted to getting the numbers "ready" when walking to report the foul.

For those who are saying they use their whistle to get your partner's attention, is your table crew not doing their job? I know Rut says he tells them not to give him a horn, but other people haven't really been mentioning it. If the horn is going off, isn't this enough to get your partners attention?

Another reason I don't care for the whistle is communication. I'm going to vocalize a lot of things during a game that I don't hear from other officials. For instance, I have seen a ball bouncing away before inbounding and an official blows a whistle to "tell" a player to get the ball for him. Really? Why can't we talk? I have of the horn, "Blue sub" preference, but I'm listening.

As far as two-hand mechanics, I need patience. I was asked about it last year and was told "We are not college officials" by an official. I need patience in this situation because this particular officials, like many others, should be more concerned with making the right call before getting to the table. In my particular association I think we have bigger fish to fry. Again, I'm all ears.

I'll mention it, then. In my meeting with the table, I instruct the timer to only give a horn for subs when we don't recognize them. It may happen once or twice a game where we're too slow for the timer or the timer's too quick for us. Frankly, my timing is better than theirs 99% of the time.

When watching JV games, it seems awkward watching the guys wait for the horn and then do the little wave to bring the player in.

I have always and will always report with one hand until told otherwise. However, I don't care if others use two hands.

I'd love to work these game you guys get where the table does everything exactly as instructed and never misses a beat! Sounds just grand! ;)

I'm not really sure what your second point has to do with a whistle for subs, but I'll go with it!

My second point has to do with using the whistle in a robotic manner instead of communicating...wait for it...with our mouths. :)

Our table crews are not perfect, but we aren't either. However, they do go through training and attend meetings like we do. They are taught to hit the horn so it isn't a big deal for them to do it consistently. I failed to mention, there are instances where a whistle is necessary like after the last free throw when a team may try to get the ball in quick.

The horn going off is to get your attention, the whistle while waving subs on lets everyone know that a sub is coming into the game - there can be no error. Please, let's not assume that everyone running the clock, scoring, or officiating is always on the same page. We've all worked with people that don't pay enough attention at times. The whistle helps to eliminate confusion, and IMHO, also helps get the substitues attention so that they know they can enter the court. It also has helped in my area so that the minute the horns sounds they are not running onto the court - they must wait for the official to beckon them onto court - whith the whistle - they know which official to look at.

I used to not use my whistle for subs, but recently I've been told by those in my association that I should do it, so I do.

Personally, I don't care. I think if I was working the table, I'd prefer for the officials to use two hands (let's ask our resident expert in all matters relating to the table ;)). If I had the choice I'd go to two handed reporting. As it is, we aren't allowed to do so in my association. so I only use it for double numbers.

I think it is a great thing to do and I would recommend it because sometimes the table doesn't even sound the horn because they forgot or they don't see the subs at the table. It is just a precaution to help you notify your partner and it also allows you to notify the table just incase they can't see the subs.

Peace
JB

Tomegun,

In your association, is that all the table crews or just a few?

Concerning the whistle for subs, as has been mentioned in other posts, it opens up communication more between partners. As I've stated before in other posts, I would rather the floor officials signal for the subs instead of me having to hit the horn.

Concerning free throws & subs, I have my hand over the horn to buzz it in case the free throw is made. As soon as I see the ball in the net on the way down, I buzz as a courtesy, knowing that the floor officials have so much to watch at the time.

I take your response as the most "matter of factly" so far. That being the case, why isn't it in the manual then? You know what I do? The horn sounds and in a voice so I can be heard I say...wait for it..."Subs!" If I'm in a situation where I cannot be heard I may use my whistle. This response causes me to ask the question: since we are always talking about making eye contact with our partners, where is the eye contact in this situation? My original question and the tables in Vegas blowing the horn are not absolutes and I don't expect eye contact with a partner to be either, but where is the eye contact we talk about in meetings, on this site and in pre-games?

If I'm coming off as argumentative right now I don't mean to. I have no problem talking things out and right now I'm seeing the reason people do this as a direct contradiction with what they always preach.

As a member of the Board for the association up North, I'll contribute my feelings.

1. NEVER use two-hand reporting in a HS game. The NFHS manual specifies "with a one-handed signal." So follow the HS mechanics or don't work that level of ball. It comes off as big-timing to use two hands for reporting numbers.

2. I ALWAYS sound the whistle when bringing in subs. Why? Because the NFHS Officials Manual says to do so. It's on pages 41 (F2) and 78 (G2), for 2-man and 3-man mechanics. There is no doubt how the NFHS wants this done.

Note:
The table crew in my area is not part of the officials association and so does not have meetings or instruction other than from us just prior to the games. We get whomever the school provides. That is a difference between here and Vegas.

I disagree. I think people read too much into it when officials report with two hands. Yes, reporting with two hands is not correct as far as the NFHS manual is concerned and should be commented on as such. But to go as far as saying reporting that way is big timing the game? That's a bit much IMO.

TOM - Since you have a whislte in your mouth when you blow it, couldn't it be argued that by blowing the whistle IS communicating with your mouth?? (J/K I will ask a player to get a ball rather than blow the whistle)
I always blow the whistle, and usually verbalize SUB, when I am bringing subs into a game. But again, I am always in the more communication camp on situations like these
As for using one or two hands reporting in HS, I TRY to use one hand but more often then not revert back to two. Part of the reason, I think, is I was asked early on "Would you rather make a $65 mistake (reporting w/ 2 hand in NFHS) or a $400 mistake (reporting with one hand in NCAA -W).?" I do agree that it CAN come off as big time, but I think that has more to do with the personality of the official than the actual mechanic.

Eat Fresh ...
 

After the horn sounds to get the substitutes in, if I wave in the substitutes and they don't come in, I'll yell, "Subs". If that doesn't work, I'll sound my whistle. That's the way most of us do it here in our little corner of the "Constitution State".

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbn...fa06a33dc45bd4

Run Silent, Run Deep ...
 

No whistle in the IAABO Manual.

Note to veteran NFHS mechanics users: Has the whistle for substitutes always been part of the NFHS Manual? Many years ago we used to use the NFHS mechanics, and I don't remember sounding the whistle to bring in substitutes.

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbn...337a977b5e744d

I never whistle for a sub. However, I do sometimes whistle at a hot mom. :)

Exactly. Don't blame the damn horn unless he's sitting on the X and I'm in la-la land.

Come on Tom, we all know at the HS level that table crew compentency varies GREATLY.

It's pretty simple for me:

• Table hits horns, I use raised hand but no whistle from me
• Table doesn't hit horn and I have eye contact with my partner I use voice and raised hand
• Table doesn't hit horn and I DON'T have eye contact with my partner then I use whistle and raised hand

I really don't see what's the big deal though.

It ain't a big deal. You do what your local association tells you to do. That includes one hand vs. two hand reporting also. And if you're not sure, you ask.

Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare ...
 

In India, associations allow ten hand reporting. It's true.

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbn...d1db4094b53776

I whistle to bring in subs and I use one hand reporting when doing HS games, on the occasion when, I have the opportunity to work NCAA-W games. I use two hand reporting. I have always been taught to be aware of what level you are working and use the proper mechanics.,

When in Rome......
 

As has been discussed, I try and do what I'm told.

As a mostly sub-V, AAU and Rec Official I use the whistle to bring in subs as the table crews are oft times not stellar performers/volunteers. Now, as I get better table crews at the JV/V games, often the horn will actually sound, in which case I have been instructed NOT to use the whistle as it is redundant.

I don't do College games, therefore I never use two-hands to report. My thoughts on that - I'm kinda in Nevada's camp here. Hey, if you do both levels and you can keep both sets of rules straight, you can keep your hand signals/mechanics straight too and you KNOW you should be using one-hand.....so, why use two? Unless you're trying to show someone something.....and what could that be?

JMO

So when you whistle at that hot mom, you're allowing her to enter the game to go after any loose balls? :)

Amen! To that one, I used to hands since I first started refereeing, it just felt more natural to me. Yeah I got picked at about it, but those who know it has nothing to do with "big timing" anyone.

Yeah - and if she does, I allow an exception to my no overtime rule! :rolleyes:

Page 41:
F. The official beckoning the substitutes should:
1. Ensure that it is appropriate to beckon substitutes (i.e., the ball is not
live, fellow official needs to report a foul).
2. Sound his/her whistle, raise an open hand.
3. Motion for the substitutes to enter the court.
4. Keep the other hand raised (stop-clock signal) until the substitution(s)
is completed and play may begin.

Page 78:
G. The official beckoning the substitutes should:
1. Ensure that it is appropriate to beckon substitutes (i.e., the ball is not
live, fellow official needs to report a foul).
2. Sound his/her whistle, raise an open hand.
3. Motion for the substitutes to enter the court.
4. Keep the other hand raised (stop-clock signal) until the substitution(s)
is completed and play may begin.

Everything I am reading/understanding of the horn sounding is a courtesy, not required, for notifying of subs at the table.

Unless there is something I missed of course.

"It depends on what the meaning of the word signal is"
 

(Apologies to William Jefferson Clinton)

From NFHS Instructions To Scorers: The scorer should not signal after the free thrower or thrower has been handed the ball or the ball is at the disposal of such player or team or until the official has completed reporting a foul.

Does the word, "signal", refer to sounding the horn?

That is the only case I have noticed that mentions the sounding of the horn.

I am meaning all times though, not just specific times.

The text you quoted, should say: "The scorer shall not signal after the free thrower or thrower has been handed the ball or the ball is at the disposal of such player or team or until the official has completed reporting a foul." The only time the horn/signal should sound in this situation is in case of a question or error, as long as there is sufficent evidence to do so.

In those same instructions it says, for scorer's equipment: "Scorebook, pencils, possession arrow & signaling device with sound
different from that of the timer."

How often is it where the scorer has a seperate signaling device?

Technically, according to the rules/regulations, it is the scorer that signals subs, not the timer. Yet how can that be done if the scorer does not have a separate signaling device?

Whatinthehell else could you expect the scorer to do?:confused:

Send a text message to the official's blackberry? Use little flags to semaphore in a sub? Send a singing telegram? Stand on the scorers table with a megaphone and shout "hey stoopid, I got a sub here to come in"? Use sign language? A starter's gun?

Haste Makes Waste ...
 

I was trying to find a NFHS reference to a required procedure of sounding a horn to signal for substitutions. I didn't spend to much time looking, so I might have missed something, but I was surprised that the one and only reference I found was in the NFHS Instructions To Scorers. I could find no other reference in the rulebook or casebook. I was also surprised that it is a negative reference, that is, "should not signal". I would have thought that the NFHS would have a procedure as to when to properly signal for a substitution. I'm sure that I have overlooked something in my haste to quickly come up with an answer.

Damn, gotta love the Pythons. Thanks, Rich.

I'd love to see a scorer sending in smoke signals for a sub. :D

You're right, Champ. It's just not fair that the damn scorer should get to use YOUR signaling device. Geeze, he might get it all dirty or sumthin'. And it's just not FAIR if the scorer wants you to sound your signalling device for him. Why should YOU do his job for him? Next time a scorer tries to pull that crap on you, tell him to piss off and get his own signalling device just like the rules tell him to.

Stand up for your rights. If the scorer wants to do that, call the AD. Wait, you're the acting AD, aren't you? That won't work. Call gym security instead? Wait, you're acting gym security, aren't you? That won't work either. Tell the head refereee. Wait, you're also the acting head referee, aren't you. DAMN!

Just call 9-1-1.

Now How Is That Supposed To Help ???
 

The try shall be attempted from within the free-throw semicircle and behind the free-throw line.

This'll Do The Job ...
 

I think this is a good way of doing it.

...and they will be asking me.

This is a good point; I only blow the whistle if I feel my partner didn't see the subs. However, we talk about this during our pregame meeting. Sometimes we have tableside get the sub or others feel more comfortable having the center grab the subs. Obviously thats in 3 man mechanics.

Two man the trail will have to get the subs.

Another big thing, something that I'm picky about, is making eye contact before putting the ball into play. I will stand there and wait until all my partners have signaled to me someway or another.

Just my two cents!

You probably should review proper mechanics. In 2-person, it's the official without the basketball (or the trail during free throws). For example, if I'm administering a throw-in as a trail, the lead is blowing his whistle and beckoning the subs. In both 2-person and 3-person, there is no choice in the matter -- there's a correct person to bring in subs and the other two are simply incorrect.

We teach to have the closest official to be the primary on a substitution. But I am of the opinion all of us should be aware of the situation and not allow the ball to be put in play if a sub is "ready." That does not mean "sub..sub..sub" by the coach before player can get off the bench.

Peace

Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice ...
 

We should all know by now not to repeat the same word three times in a row.

http://cn1.kaboodle.com/hi/img/c/0/0...=1229988247000

I Only Have Eyes For You ...
 

Excellent advice for both young and old.

Sorry Billy never saw that movie.

I did see this movie. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ymanposter.jpg

:D

Peace

I'm guessing this is one of those regional differences. I checked the NFHS manual and they say "closest to the table." Nobody I ever work with here would ever bring in a sub with the ball, and we still do a lot of 2-person at the varsity level. One of those things I never really questioned, so my apologies to the poster. You are probably closer to the book in Ohio than we are.

Still, as long as only one official is bringing in the subs, it really doesn't matter who does it.

At least for varsity games it is extremely rare (outside of the Chicago Public Schools) to do a 2 Person game. We have other officials that can see the sub. And for the record we teach this mechanic not because it is in the NF Manual (as we do not use such manual), it is because that seems to work best. And who brings the attention to the crew is not a sticking point around here or at least with me. I just want the sub to be brought in. But the initial communication or whistle blowing should come from the closest to the table. Then if we are in transition in 3 Person, we pass the C for the rest of the substitution responsibility.

Peace

I'm pretty certain for 3 we do it exactly as you. I've been to a number of camps (HS and NCAAM) and the procedure there is exactly what I'm used to.

The guys I work with - we whistle in all subs. Like I said, in 2-person with the guys I work with, it's the one without the basketball that does this. If I'm standing trail with the ball tableside, the lead will be the one to get the sub with a whistle.

I'd be thrilled to work all 3-person, but the momentum for that has gone away with school funding being what it is.

If I was, all you say I am, wouldn't I be getting paid instead of volunteer?

If a "person" closely reads the rules/regulstions closely, the horn the timer uses is only supposed to be used for the signaling to end a quarter/half/game. It is actually supposed to be the scorer that is to signal for subs after those subs are at the table & properly reported in.

Same can be said if there is a blarge/error in the score or a question concerning the score or fouls, it's the scorer that is supposed to signal, not the timer.

I agree. It's an outrage that you're not being paid for your contributions to the CHS Eagles, their league, and basketball in general. An outrage, I tell ya!!! It's just another example of your local AD falling down on his duties. No wonder you have to do so much of his job. Maybe we can have a benefit for you, or sumthin' like that. Making sell ribbons. Or Livechseagle bracelets.

2) I also agree with that. It's not only an outrage, it's a travesty of the game that no one has ever given you your very own signaling device to follow the correct rules/regulations. An outrage AND a travesty, I tell ya!!! As of the posting of this response, I am starting up a campaign to raise the necessary funds to buy you the absolute best signaling device available. One that you can take home with you at night. In CHS Eagles' colors, of course. All donations can be sent to me, care of the location showing on my profile.

Please help send a signaling device to Chseagle before it's too late! Give 'til it hurts!

I do not mind volunteering my time, considering generally I can get a hot dog or two afterwards or maybe the rest of the popcorn that wasn't sold.

However, I do feel that if a person is actually getting paid, like the Varsity person is ($35 a night for 2 games), that they should be on the ball with all the current rules/regulations.

On any basketball night I average 3-4 games at the table, & 1-2 working as crowd control/security. I do it to support my alma mater (I know the question arises about neutrality) & to lessen the burden of having to find personnel to do table ops.

Last year, for the one game where I did Boys' Varsity Timer/Scoreboard I just happened to be in the right place at the right time, as the regular person did not show up that night.

For the 4A Regional I've done the past couple of years, I have done that to lessen the burden of those running ir to give them a truly neutral person that has no vested interest in the schools participating. Sure I may of gotten paid there but to me that was just an additional perk.

I do table ops cause I enjoy doing it & it gives me time away from the house, especially since I am unable to find any long term/permanent employment.

Are you saying that you can have the ball and be right beside the table, but the lead official all the way down on the endline will blow his/her whistle to bring in a sub that is closer to you?

Yes. The person without the ball handles subs and holds up the game until they're in / out. The person with the ball gets the thrower-in ready and waits for the subs to be completed.

If we're working 3-person and I'm the trail tableside administering a throw-in, the center opposite will get the subs.

Seriously - that's how all the people I work with here have done it.

Right, wrong, or indifferent, it's consistent.

go figure

The reasoning for that has been my health, & the region I live in seems to discriminate against those that speak English only.

Periodically, have I seen the official with the ball near the table call in subs. I've seen the official on the endline with the ball call in subs, although another official was closer to the table.

9.6% 14.5% 22% and 8.7% Those are the National unemployment rate, unemployment rate for disabled people, 'real' unemployment rate and the state unemployment rate in Washington state
THOSE are the figures I assume you were talking about. Because I am sure you would not be disparaging someone who is experiencing personal difficulties in employment in times like these.

This goes against common sense to me. If I'm about to put the ball in play beside the table and there are subs I'm not going to expect someone 45 feet away to call the subs in and possibly blow the whistle for the subs.

What if I call a non-shooting foul from the trail table side - with the spot table side - and there are subs waiting? I'm going to look right at the table, report, and then ignore the subs because my partner is bringing them in from the lead or center? I'm looking at the table and now my partner is looking at the table (two man) while nobody is focused on the players; it takes a split second for something bad to happen. Nah, whistle or not whistle, ball or no ball, the official closest to the table will handle the subs in Southern Nevada.

I don't really see this as such a big deal. We all take a quick glance at the table. I can bring in subs from the C without taking my eyes off the court.

However, I have the current disadvantage of not having worked (with the exception of 2 camps) since March, so I'll have to think some more on this. I don't remember any confusion on sub situations, though, and I'm pretty sure we simply don't bring subs in when we have the ball. I'll have to talk to one of my regular partners about this tonight when we head to the Brewers game.

I am with Tommy on this issue. Not sure why if I am standing by the table with the ball I cannot notice the subs. But that does not mean I will not miss one or two depending on the situation. Then again if that is how you do it Rich then I can see how that is what you think is best. Just not something I would be used to.

Peace

I doubt there is confusion since that is what you are used to, but if the trail is beside the table with the ball and the lead (two man) is all the way on the end line across from the table, the lead has no choice but to look past/through other players to bring the sub in. Why the trail, who is right there, can't use a normal voice and say, "Come in sub" is beyond me. The ball will not be put into play because the trail has it anyway.

Shifting gears slightly, how many (if any) single subs (one after the other) will you allow to come to the table and into the game during a dead ball before you make them wait? I'm talking about a coach sending A1, then the other coach B1, then A2, then B2 OR A1, A2, A3....

Ooh, I hate this too!
 

This is a game managment issue. I like to tell the coaches during our meet and greet - "Have your players ready at the table. I don't want an ongoing parade."

I don't have a set rule, but put a stop to it fast.

More tolerant than I used to be, although I'll whistle the subsequent subs in well before they reach the table to minimize the delay.

I usually yell "SUB". If after the second yell they don't come in, I'll yell "HEY - I'M NOT ORDERING A SANDWICH HERE". That usually gets their attention.

http://cms.troup.k12.ga.us/images/sub_sandwich.gif

I've never gotten to the point where I deny a sub. But I do hate it when coaches do that.

In cases like these I usually make a comment loud enough for the coaches to hear, and it usually works. Something along the lines of "Anyone else you want to send in or can those of us on the floor start the game again?" "Anyone else? The water's fine"

Are you kidding or do you really say that? I'm very much against "One Liners" and comments like this that can make a situation worse. What if someone talked to you like that? I wouldn't continue to have sporting behavior very long.

+1

If we make comments like that, then kick a play later, its not gonna be pretty.

+1

Terrible advice. Nothing positive ever comes out of wiseazz responses.

Am I the only one that noticed the extreme irony in this response? :eek: :D

As a general rule, I would agree wiseazz responses, and perhaps profanity, should definitely be avoided. However, a lot depends on the specific official, and the "audience". There are a few officials that can get away with those types of responses, in limited situations. I actually heard an "old-timer" in our area reply to a coach's (somewhat dumb) question: "What the f*ck are you talking about?" I could tell from the look on the coach's face that he realized he asked a dumb question, walked away, and nothing was said after that. There's no way I could ever get away with saying that, but that's not my personality.

I think everyone here knows Mark Padgett's sense of humor - I'm sure he really does use a number of those lines during some of his games. But he also knows his audience, and I'm sure his audience knows him well enough to expect it. But I couldn't get away with saying any of thoses things in a "normal" high school or college game.

You are setting yourself up for failure by that stinkin thinkin. If you already think you are going to kick a call then you already have!!:p The key to YOUR scenario is to not kick a call!;)
I HAVE used those lines, wasving the 5th sub and saying "Come on, join the party" is my favorite, but as stated, it depends on audience and situation. I agree there are those that can and those that CAN'T get away with it. I have a partner who is a great friend but if he tried something like that, all hell would break loose. Conversely, he can do things and get away with that I can't. That's why boards like this are good for all b/c different people have different personalities.

Remember PT-73 ???
 

Isn't that what Ensign Charles Parker used to yell to Lieutenant Commander Quinton McHale?

Any Reference From NFHS ???
 

From the IAABO Manual (Page 85): Substitution Procedures And Guidelines: 4. Substitution requests shall not be honored when the ball is about to become live.

A person who can throw in a McHale's navy reference in a basketball officiating discussion board is OK by me!!!

Billy - From The Official's Manual
 

2.4.6 Substitutions:

A. To be acknowledged for entry, the substitute must be properly reported to
the scorer and ready for entry, at which time the timer’s horn is sounded.

(the last part is for the Eagle of course).

So, by the players constantly coming off the bench, it could be said they have not properly reported and therefore are not ready.

"Come on, join the party" is very different from what the questionable one liner is. The whole concept of one liners is silly. To have pre-determined wise responses is trouble. It is also too late to say "I wouldn't try it" because there have been too many people on this site who have asked for them in the past.

Did either of you bother to read 3-3-1d? :D

"If entry is at any time other than between quarters, and a substitute who is
entitled and ready to enter reports to the scorer, the scorer shall use a
sounding device or game horn, if, or as soon as, the ball is dead and the
clock is stopped."

Your brethren up North have agreed to teach to blow the whistle when bringing in subs just as stated in the NFHS manual. It would be appreciated if you would teach it that way in the South too, so that we are all on the same page when it comes time to work together at the State Tournament.

I cut if off right there. A2 doesn't get in. Team A already made a substitution and Team B countered. We are certainly ready to play by now.
So A2 has to wait, unless there is an injury or some other oddity.

3-3-1-d ...
 

Nevadaref: Thanks. That's the reference that I was looking for.

In that case, you might have the scorer yelling at you. I was taught as a scorer, not to allow players in the game until they are at the table in front of me & reported in the book.

At which point I would get a new scorer as I was taught not to have the scorer yell at me

However I rarely am scorer any more & have realized that at times the game gets fast paced, so to heck with that teaching.

I just make sure now that the player is recorded either as soon as at the table or while they're going onto the court.

I thought that saying was from "Down Periscope"

I'm rather fond of the saying "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead", myself :)

Any conflict, then someone at the state level should be making the decision as to what procedure to use. It should be uniform, but if the state decides to not follow the manual, then that's the way it is.

In my experience, the "audience" might change on you too though. You might think that you have a great rapport with a coach and you can get away with some comments, but you might also catch him at the wrong time. If so, your great rapport is gonna go right down the dumper.

Imo, you should limit your wiseazz comments to coaches to pre and post game situations.

Of course, I also gotta admit that I've failed to follow my own advice in the past also. :D

Can you send me an email or empty some space so I can PM you?

I'm still curious, why is a whistle necessary to get your partners attention when many people have harped on making eye contact. If official do what they are saying they do, why have a whistle to get your partner's attention?

No, it's what Ralph Kramden used to yell at Ed Norton. Oh wait, that was "BUS", which is "SUB" backwards.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5tKvwoPy9S...eadows_bus.jpg

What if your brethren down south don't agree with this arbitrary philosophy?

I do not think it is necessary. Which is why I do not do it all the time. Can it be a useful tool? Of course. And no I do not follow NF mechanics and do not feel everything the NF comes up with is necessary. I feel it is an option and can be used if you need to. But many times good partners do not need a whistle at all.

Peace

See post #89.

I can dig it.

The brethren down south are concerned with improving our product first and foremost. After that, we are concerned with doing things that make (common) sense so we can focus on improving our product.

I sent our rules interpreter (we have one of those in addition to the instructional chair) an email and he agrees with me about the whistle. We will use it when necessary, but not all the time.

What does a RULES interpreter have to do with standardizing mechanics?

In this case he has knowledge of what the NFHS really wants, he has many years as an official and the instructional chair respects his opinion. :D

Rich, common sense really has to be a part of what we do in our area because our goal is to improve the product - get in position and call plays correctly. I will be the first to say I care more about communication than things like blowing a whistle on a sub, using two hands to report or using the stop clock mechanic before giving a direction. My question is, does official X communicate well? If the answer is yes, then let's focus more on getting more plays right. I have sat in meetings in three different regions of the country - 5 high school associations. The thing they have in common is that they all have referees who talk a good game, but cannot officiate their way out of a paper bag! My experience tells me that most of those officials want to spend 95% of the time on small details that don't matter and 5% of the time talking about things that will help them call a better game. Plus, we get caught in a culture where we don't have enough engaged officials versus officials who do more harm than good. Will we (Southern Nevada) make huge improvements this season? I don't know, but we are going to try.

I don't disagree with you. I am a firm believer that play-calling is 90% of the deal for officials and I spend most of my time worrying about getting the right position and the right look and the right philosophy to make proper decisions on the court.

That said, why can't officials focus on that *and* get the mechanics right, too?

Last summer I went to a camp where I was told up front that "this is a HS camp, we will use HS mechanics." I hadn't raised my hand 5 times in 3 years before pointing a direction and still got some darned good assignments. I took it as a challenge (and I didn't want to be noticed for something so silly) and didn't miss a single "stop clock" the entire weekend and was *still* noticed (in a positive way) for my play calling.

So while I'm not against what you say, I'll ask again -- why can't officials do both?