New official question on game management

[Sleeper]

One of the hardest parts of the game to develop a feel for in football for me was the sideline management aspect of working on the wing. I have the ability to throw a flag and assess a penalty, but doing so introduces me as a factor in the game. I avoid it, as much as possible, and use preventive officiating as an alternative to laundry on the field. I don't have to deal with fans, because of distance and the nuances of the game. It also seems that this area of the game, while small, has the greatest potential for damage if I don't handle it right. I work on football on almost a nightly basis right now and I am getting a feel for where my tolerances (safety and personal) are, but I had some good advice from veteran officials before I ever stepped on the field.

Basketball, being a different game, deals with these things differently. I have an understanding as to when a "T" is needed, but how should I deal with crowd issues? Is there a line (generally) a fan crosses that deserves warning, penalty or expulsion from the facility? What are some situations and solutions that our veteran officials have faced? How did it turn out? Thanks in advance for the advice.

[mick]

Originally posted by Sleeper

Basketball, being a different game, deals with these things differently. I have an understanding as to when a "T" is needed, but how should I deal with crowd issues? Is there a line (generally) a fan crosses that deserves warning, penalty or expulsion from the facility? What are some situations and solutions that our veteran officials have faced? How did it turn out? Thanks in advance for the advice.

Sleeper,
RE: Fans:
I do not (let them know I) hear 'em.
I do not (let them know I) see 'em.

...unless they give me the ball or a compliment.
mick

[JRutledge]

Main thing, always keep your attention on the field or court. Your attention should only waiver if something from the stands is affecting the court. Mainly that being something that might affect a player or coach.

Actually, baskeball and football deal with these things in the same way. You can penalize the crowd, in turn penalizing the fans of a particular team. You can do this, but it is not a very popular or fair (my opinion) practice. You should just have the proper people removed or dealt with, but penalizing the team for the actions of someone that has no direct association is not the best way to handle it in my opinion.

Peace

[Kelvin green]

I have dealt with fans before....

1) standing on the baseline- They move or get removed
2) standing up on sidelines where it interferes with the play- They move or get removed

3) if it is a small gym with few people and they are loud and profane they will get dealt with

I agree most of the time forget they are there. They are idiots that have no idea what the rules are and where you are watching.

[walter]

I agree with Rut. Generally I pay absolutely no attention to fans. However, if someone or a group of people are interjecting themselves into the game in a way that can no longer be ignored, I would make use of the game site administration and have them deal with the problem. That being said, the person(s) would have to be saying or doing something that is so offensive that it cannot be ignored. It would also have to be something that interferes with the ability to play/officiate the game. I agree with Mick that even though I may hear something, I make a conscious effort not to let them know I heard it.

[Andy]

I deal with fans if:

1. I hear profanity and can identify the individual
2. They come onto the court or make threating movements toward the court
3. They direct personal insults to players. (This often involves students from the opponents in HS games)

I deal with them by speaking with game management and/or the home team coach. Other than the situations listed, I ignore 'em or laugh at 'em

[mick]

Originally posted by Andy
I deal with fans if:

1. I hear profanity and can identify the individual
2. They come onto the court or make threating movements toward the court
3. They direct personal insults to players. (This often involves students from the opponents in HS games)

Andy,
I don't know what I would do if that crap happened around here. I cannot imagine being associated with such nonsense.

If you have to deal with that stuff in Arizona on a regular basis, I am convinced you love the game more than I.
mick

[Brian Watson]

I have had times where the fan(s) get profane or derogatory against the other team or the crew, you get the AD to shoo them out.

Why penalize the team, just show them the door.

Can't really think of a reason to do it, unless it is one of those sitches where they are throwing stuff and it is a bunch of them.

[dblref]

Had a JV boys game (2 top-notch teams) last year and there was a lot of trash (paper, tin foil from hot dogs) being thrown on the floor. I was trail administering the ball (home team) at the division line opposite the table. Everytime I started to hand the ball to the player, visiting team fans would throw something on the floor. When it happened a couple of times, the AD came over and spotted the fools doing this and they were quickly shown the door. He did this without me asking him to handle it. There is no place in sports for that type of behavior. A lot of fans think because they pay to get in, they can say/do anything. Wrong! Paying only allows them in to see the game. It does not give them the right to throw things or yell profane or derogatory words.

[Andy]

Originally posted by mick

Andy,
I don't know what I would do if that crap happened around here. I cannot imagine being associated with such nonsense.

If you have to deal with that stuff in Arizona on a regular basis, I am convinced you love the game more than I.
mick

In fifteen years of officiating, each of these situations has happened to me personally one time each. Fortunately, it is not a regular occurance.

Sleeper asked for advice on dealing with crowd issues, I gave him some from my vast (some would say half-vast) experience.

[theboys]

As a coach and a fan I've seen (and been an) "exuberant" fans. I don't mean profane, just noisy. I've found three things work, in the following order:

1. The referee, at an appropriate time, politely asks the fan(s) to settle down.
2. The referee asks the coach to deal with it.
3. The referee asks an administrator to deal with it.

While #1 doesn't always work, it does for me. #2 almost always works, because, generally, the loudmouth is a parent. #3 always works, at least for school games I've been involved in. Few people want to get on the bad side of a principal or AD.

[Don in MN]

Theboys:

I would go straight to No. 3 in all circumstances when dealing with unruly fans. Maintaining proper fan conduct is ALWAYS the responsibility of game-site administrators, not officials or coaches.

If the game-site supervisor is unwilling to do their duty in dealing with unruly fans, then the home team will get penalized. And I would politely tell the AD that I would never work a game at their school again.

[rainmaker]

I think the only time we are even allowed to talk to the home coach about it, is if there is no AD or such around. I had one game where there was no management around, and my partner kept insisting there was not a problem. The coach was this mousy little gal with no backbone and a couple ofthe fans were being just plain awful. They kept calling out to the opponent players, at crucial moments, "Miss it, cow" '"She's so fat she can't even run!" and so on. The problem about it was that they weren't missing the mark by much and the girls were clearly affected by it. It wouldn't have mattered at all but there were only like 9 fans in the gym. Seriously, I don't know if it was that many. So every word was clearly audible. In fact, I'm pretty sure I heard what some of the moms were planning for dinner. Slight exaggeration, but you get the picture. Anyway, at a time-out, I went over and said loud enough for everyone in the gym to hear me, "You guys, either be quiet or get out!!" I was quite shocked to find out that it worked!! Shocked because it was very early in my career, and I really wasn't sure what to expect. They left rather sheepishly! About five minutes later, the AD came back in and I explained what had ahppened. He found the boys still hanging around outside, and gave them "what for". Later I felt kind of sorry for the boys. What kind of men could they possibly grow up to be if their idea of a fun afternoon is harrassing struggling girls from a distance? Where were their mommas?!