Jump stop vs "up and down"

[deecee]

Same scenario except

a. defender blocks the shot and A1 is unable to release the shot and returns to the floor with both feet
b. its a legal jump stop that the defender grabs and then A1 lands legally on both feet and regains sole control of the ball

so by some of your description NEITHER of these is a jump ball?

[docofficial]

Thanks for all the good discussion.

Some of these latter posts are getting to the heart of the matter: there are some interesting implications if it's not a travel. I, frankly, think the jump stop should not be allowed. It's too difficult to officiate (we've got to watch the defender [referee the defense] and still observe if the feet come down simulateously, the offense already has enough advantage in this game - they don't need another move at their disposal, and per this discussion, a smart coach and player could use the rule as its written to a tremendous advantage.

[deecee]

I do think intent plays a roll in this call. I personally have a jump ball in scenario A that I gave and I do believe its a travel. The jump stop was never intended in how the OP phrased his question and in this case I would dare any of you officials NOT call this a travel at camp, or in any game of any importance.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by deecee

Same scenario except

a. defender blocks the shot and A1 is unable to release the shot and returns to the floor with both feet
b. its a legal jump stop that the defender grabs and then A1 lands legally on both feet and regains sole control of the ball

so by some of your description NEITHER of these is a jump ball?

a. If the touch by the defender prevents the release, it is a held ball.

b. Judgment call. It depends on whether or not "undue roughness" was needed to regain control.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

a. If the touch by the defender prevents the release, it is a held ball.

b. Judgment call. It depends on whether or not "undue roughness" was needed to regain control.

I dont see how you can argue 2 different things here when you dont think this is a travel to begin with. If b is a judgement call to you then so should a.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by deecee

I dont see how you can argue 2 different things here when you dont think this is a travel to begin with. If b is a judgement call to you then so should a.

My answers come from the definition of a held ball.

In the first case, an airborne player was prevented from releasing a shot. By definition, this is clearly a held ball.

In the second, no mention is made of a shot attempt, so presumably the defender simply grabbed or attempted to grab the ball out of the hands of the offensive player. Held ball or not? Judgment call. The jump stop is irrelevant here.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by deecee

Same scenario except

a. defender blocks the shot and A1 is unable to release the shot and returns to the floor with both feet
b. its a legal jump stop that the defender grabs and then A1 lands legally on both feet and regains sole control of the ball

so by some of your description NEITHER of these is a jump ball?

a. is a held ball

I have a difficult time answering b. because your writing isn't clear. Was A1 airborne and attempting a try or pass which was prevented from being released? If so, then that would be a held ball as well, but if A1 was merely holding the ball and never tried to pass or shoot, then it wouldn't be a held ball as clearly control was able to be established without undue roughness.

BTW the proper term is held ball. A jump ball is when the referee tosses the ball in the center circle.