"I'm 52 years old, and in all my years..."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by DLH17

You're making stuff up again. Never said I was doing anything perfectly. In fact, I said I'm always trying to get better, which clearly implies I know I'm not perfect.

When your criticism of other officials is that they do not switch during dead balls and do things like bump and run during summer ball that sounds like you are saying are perfect to me. It might be some hyperbole on your part, but you suggested that you hustled and everyone else was not giving their best effort because they were not doing these very specific things you suggested they should. Then you have had people that suggested while working multiple games that was somewhat unrealistic. Then you snapped back at everyone and said you did not slow down a bit. If that is not implying you are perfect I do not know what is. Even during a real game I would expect some lapses in those things you claim you do all the time. For one I know that I might not bump and run because my partners and I make a mistake as to where we are to go. It is not always an issue of hustle.

Originally Posted by DLH17

Again, I've never claimed to be perfect...only strive to do the best job I can. Mistakes are inevitable.

And, I'd love to have you evaluate me and give needed criticism. Constructive criticism is always welcome.

In my circles you would be the "yeah but" guy. The guy that we would tell you something and you would insist there was a reason for your mistake.

Peace

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

When your criticism of other officials is that they do not switch during dead balls and do things like bump and run during summer ball that sounds like you are saying are perfect to me. It might be some hyperbole on your part, but you suggested that you hustled and everyone else was not giving their best effort because they were not doing these very specific things you suggested they should. Then you have had people that suggested while working multiple games that was somewhat unrealistic. Then you snapped back at everyone and said you did not slow down a bit. If that is not implying you are perfect I do not know what is. Even during a real game I would expect some lapses in those things you claim you do all the time. For one I know that I might not bump and run because my partners and I make a mistake as to where we are to go. It is not always an issue of hustle.

All I can say is, you inferred incorrectly. I'm far from perfect. But def want to get better instead of becoming stagnant or indifferent.

I'm the guy who, when more experienced officials come to me for discussion or feedback in summer camps (or any other occassion), listens closely and works on things discussed. More often than not, their is a look of surprise on their faces because, apparently, it's rare for officials to accept feedback about their own performances from peers w/o getting brushed off or some air of attitude. I can't afford to give attitude even if one evaluator tells me to do one thing this way and another evaluator the next days says to do the same thing a different way. Listen, nod, ask good questions so they know you were listening and go do it.

Maybe "in my circles" you would be the evaluator that is a windbag that loves to hear the sound of his own voice. Is that fair? Probably not. Neither was your "yeah but" guy quip.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by DLH17

I can't afford to give attitude even if one evaluator tells me to do one thing this way and another evaluator the next days says to do the same thing a different way. Listen, nod, ask good questions so they know you were listening and go do it.

OK ... we all know that most of us probably behave differently here than in the "real world". And while I admit that the two of us probably got under our skin and both said things a bit more strongly and with less tact than we might have in real life...
and for my part I apologize for reacting that way...

I have to wonder, given your adverse/argumentative reaction to people ALL OVER the country telling you that your expectations of 100% hustle, 100% of the time, for 2 days straight over 8/11 games was unrealistic, I'm surprised you say you behave this way with evaluators you come face-to-face with. Why would you have not given THIS crowd (A crowd made up of 90% officials that care enough that they go onto a board like this in the first place, 9% coach/rats/parents wanting to stir trouble, and 1% 1-time parents/coaches with legit questions) the same courtesy. You immediately became argumentative when questioned at all.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

OK ... we all know that most of us probably behave differently here than in the "real world". And while I admit that the two of us probably got under our skin and both said things a bit more strongly and with less tact than we might have in real life...
and for my part I apologize for reacting that way...

If you're extending an olive branch, I accept. And, I admit it takes two to tango. So, I apologize for my terseness as well.

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I have to wonder, given your adverse/argumentative reaction to people ALL OVER the country telling you that your expectations of 100% hustle, 100% of the time, for 2 days straight over 8/11 games was unrealistic, I'm surprised you say you behave this way with evaluators you come face-to-face with. Why would you have not given THIS crowd (A crowd made up of 90% officials that care enough that they go onto a board like this in the first place, 9% coach/rats/parents wanting to stir trouble, and 1% 1-time parents/coaches with legit questions) the same courtesy. You immediately became argumentative when questioned at all.

Well, let's be clear about something. I expect 100% effort (however you want to define that - re: another poster in this thread said that might mean "pacing yourself" for the long haul) from myself and anyone else that is being paid to do a job on the court. Our kids deserve that.

Your question is a good one - the only answer I have is from the outset, there was a lot of venom. Nothing sincere about having a decent conversation. Just a lot of "BS", "you're a liar", etc etc. For better or worse, I reacted to that. Additionally, until JRutledge told me he was an evaluator in this thread, I had no clue who these anonymous people are. Does that mean they deserve less than respect? No. From the tone and attitude I was getting, it seemed like they would rather be confrontational and snarky than anything else.

In the end, I can only control my reactions though, so to that end, my apology is extended to JRutledgde, CamronRust and any others that felt put off by my posts.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by DLH17

All I can say is, you inferred incorrectly. I'm far from perfect. But def want to get better instead of becoming stagnant or indifferent.

I am only responding to what you have said to me and many others.

Originally Posted by DLH17

I'm the guy who, when more experienced officials come to me for discussion or feedback in summer camps (or any other occassion), listens closely and works on things discussed. More often than not, their is a look of surprise on their faces because, apparently, it's rare for officials to accept feedback about their own performances from peers w/o getting brushed off or some air of attitude. I can't afford to give attitude even if one evaluator tells me to do one thing this way and another evaluator the next days says to do the same thing a different way. Listen, nod, ask good questions so they know you were listening and go do it.

Maybe "in my circles" you would be the evaluator that is a windbag that loves to hear the sound of his own voice. Is that fair? Probably not. Neither was your "yeah but" guy quip.

This shows you have never been a person in my position. Because most guys deals with the "Yeah but" guys, just move on and do not talk to guys that know everything. I would rather give my time to the people that paid their money and want to learn, then the guy that paid their money and knows what they are doing. I will move on. What you need to understand is many of the people that you have challenged are very accomplished officials and are not speaking to you from ignorance. But you know.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

When your criticism of other officials ........that sounds like you are saying are perfect to me. It might be some hyperbole on your part, but you suggested that you hustled and everyone else was not giving their best effort because they were not doing these very specific things you suggested they should.

All this sounds familiar somehow.

Originally Posted by just another ref

We have a steal near the division line, and two greyhounds took off on a two-on-none break. What we actually had for a few seconds, if you will, was a trail and a trail-er. When partner made the call, he was probably at the halfway point of the lane. I was somewhere approaching the division line. Read all the mechanics manuals you want, it still won't help you keep up with 17 year olds.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

....if you cannot keep up with kids that are 17 year old and you are beat that badly, it is time to find some other level to work. About 2 weeks before the season I had a ruptured hamstring that I rehabbed for two weeks. When I came back for my first basketball, I could keep up adequately with 17 year olds. And I am in great shape and I hustle often...

Originally Posted by just another ref

You are going to have to draw me a picture here. This is a two whistle game.
Ball is knocked into the backcourt and B1 and B2 race each other to pick it up, which B1 did, probably about the top of the key. They proceeded to finish a two on none break, then A1 came in and slapped the board after the fact. So, if we would have had two of you calling this game, spell it out for me where you would have been positioned, before and after the steal.

NO ANSWER

Criticism of another official, his positioning, etc.

Mention of one's own hustle.

Interesting. Sometimes things come full circle.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

NO ANSWER

Criticism of another official, his positioning, etc.

Mention of one's own hustle.

Interesting. Sometimes things come full circle.

Here is the thing. Everything I have done can be verified as an official. And even the situation that I described that you quoted can be verified. And if I recall I actually worked with a person on this board when after my injury. I did not make a claim that I could never back up. Sorry, not the same thing or the same situation.

What you might want to do is let it go. That conversation was long over. But hey, if you were confident in your own abilities you would not be concerned what I said about you in the first place.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

When your criticism of other officials is that they do not switch during dead balls and do things like bump and run during summer ball that sounds like you are saying are perfect to me.

The point is you are criticizing this guy for criticizing other officials, when you were guilty of exactly the same thing. Then, as is so often the case, when called on it, you disappear from the thread.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The point is you are criticizing this guy for criticizing other officials, when you were guilty of exactly the same thing. Then, as is so often the case, when called on it, you disappear from the thread.

Dude, you really need to let it go. Whatever you think I need to verify for you is not going to happen. Actually the situation is not even close the same thing. One was about a person that made comments about people he came in direct contact with. The other was for comments made on this board and this board only. I almost never talk about partners that I work with here and I never will. Because if I were to say something about someone here, it could be verified and I do not want to embarrass that person or people involved.

And the quote you referenced about my hustle can be verified. I actually worked my first game back from a hamstring injury with a person that is on this board. And anyone here that has seen me work can verify how I work and I even publicized a game this past February that was on TV. BTW, there was a person on this board that stopped by the game and watched me as well.

Let it go. It is time to worry about what you do and then you will be happy. Obviously you are still worried about what I think about you. You really do not want my opinion on this now.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The point is you are criticizing this guy for criticizing other officials, when you were guilty of exactly the same thing. Then, as is so often the case, when called on it, you disappear from the thread.

Gee, JAR, didya forget about this thread when you made the "criticizing other officials" remark above?

Vote of Confidence?

The point is you are criticizing this guy for criticizing other officials. when you were guilty of exactly the same thing.

Comment? Or y'all just gonna disappear from this thread?


This forum is better than Oprah some days.

[DLH17]

Thanks for hijacking my thread, just another ref!

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Gee, JAR, didya forget about this thread when you made the "criticizing other officials" remark above?

Vote of Confidence?

The point is you are criticizing this guy for criticizing other officials. when you were guilty of exactly the same thing.

Comment? Or y'all just gonna disappear from this thread?


This forum is better than Oprah some days.

You're leaving out a step. I say it's OK to criticize other officials. It's criticizing the criticism which is, in this case, creating the conflict.

In the old thread in question, the whole deal was about giving my partner info and allowing him to correct an erroneous GT call. In passing, I mentioned that both of us were somewhat behind where we might like to have been on the play because 17 year olds run faster than we do. (couldn't keep up with 'em then, can't now) Rut popped off about how he could keep up and what great shape he was/is in. (which actually had nothing to do with the thread and the matter at hand) I offered him the opportunity to describe where he would have positioned himself before, during, and after the play, but he was never heard from again. Go figure.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

You're leaving out a step. I say it's OK to criticize other officials. It's criticizing the criticism which is, in this case, creating the conflict.

In the old thread in question, the whole deal was about giving my partner info and allowing him to correct an erroneous GT call. In passing, I mentioned that both of us were somewhat behind where we might like to have been on the play because 17 year olds run faster than we do. (couldn't keep up with 'em then, can't now) Rut popped off about how he could keep up and what great shape he was/is in. (which actually had nothing to do with the thread and the matter at hand) I offered him the opportunity to describe where he would have positioned himself before, during, and after the play, but he was never heard from again. Go figure.

I decided not to respond because it is pointless talking to you. Why say something to someone that knows what I already think or what I already feel.

Having a discussion with you is like having a discussion with some girl I once dated about some issue we argued about 10 years ago. Not only is it not fun, but it is totally unnecessary.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Having a discussion with you is like having a discussion with some girl I once dated about some issue we argued about 10 years ago. Not only is it not fun, but it is totally unnecessary.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Gee, JAR, didya forget about this thread when you made the "criticizing other officials" remark above?

Vote of Confidence?

The point is you are criticizing this guy for criticizing other officials. when you were guilty of exactly the same thing.

Comment? Or y'all just gonna disappear from this thread?


This forum is better than Oprah some days.

And the funny part he went to people in the game and sold out his partner. Wow!!! That is something I would never do or even share. I do not go around telling partners or coaches how bad I feel my partner is. I only talk about partners to very close people or if asked by assignors that assigned the game what I might think. I do not even like selling out someone in a camp setting if I am the only one there doing the evaluations and the people they are trying to work for are not there.

There is a big difference between talking about something here and referencing things people tell you, then going to my real life officiating and selling out partners or acting like an azz because an official does not work like I do. Good Lord and JAR is on me about what I said about him? Really, that is funny. No wonder I ignore his threads normally.

Peace