jump stop...travelling call???

[wanja]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Really? What about:

That's exactly to what I was refering. Sorry if it wasn't clear (basketball is over, for now, for me, so all my posts are without specific references at hand).

I suggest that you re-read all of Article 2 carefully. You left off the beginning which states the dribbler has one foot on the playing court, initiates a jump off that foot.

The bottom line is that by explicit NCAA rule definition and implicit NFHS definition, a jump stop involves jumping off of one foot (and therefore previously landing on one foot) and then landing on 2 feet. Simply catching the ball in the air and landing simultaneously on 2 feet does not constitute a jump stop.

Art. 2. A jump stop may also be executed when the dribbler has one foot on the playing court, initiates a jump off that foot, ends the dribble with both feet off the playing court and lands simultaneously on both feet (either foot can be established as the pivot foot).

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by wanja

I suggest that you re-read all of Article 2 carefully. You left off the beginning which states the dribbler has one foot on the playing court, initiates a jump off that foot.

The bottom line is that by explicit NCAA rule definition and implicit NFHS definition, a jump stop involves jumping off of one foot (and therefore previously landing on one foot) and then landing on 2 feet. Simply catching the ball in the air and landing simultaneously on 2 feet does not constitute a jump stop.

Art. 2. A jump stop may also be executed when the dribbler has one foot on the playing court, initiates a jump off that foot, ends the dribble with both feet off the playing court and lands simultaneously on both feet (either foot can be established as the pivot foot).

Yes, when I said "catch", I meant "end the dribble in the air". It was the example / play / movie in my head, so it was clear to me.

In any event, it's a difference without a distinction. Either foot can be the pivot foot in either case.

In the "other" type of jump stop (catching the ball or ending the dribble on one foot, or landing on one foot and then jumping and landing on both), neither foot can be the pivot foot.

The point is that when someone asks a question about a jump stop, the correct answer often depends on their definition of jump stop.

[Pantherdreams]

So . . .

Player A is dribbling towards the basket and leaves the floor with both feet while dribbling and then gathers the ball once in the air (pro hop, jump stop, whatever you want to call it) landing with both feet simultaneously.

They may then pivot, moving one foot towards the basket and follow that by letting both front and back foot leave the floor to shoot without traveling.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

So . . .

Player A is dribbling towards the basket and leaves the floor with both feet while dribbling and then gathers the ball once in the air (pro hop, jump stop, whatever you want to call it) landing with both feet simultaneously.

They may then pivot, moving one foot towards the basket and follow that by letting both front and back foot leave the floor to shoot without traveling.

Correct.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The point is that when someone asks a question about a jump stop, the correct answer often depends on their definition of jump stop.

That can be a problem. When people can simply make up definitions to suit themselves, it can only cause confusion and rule myths for everyone else.

Panther's example is certainly a legal move, but it's not a jump stop. While the NFHS doesn't have a definition, the NCAA does, and I believe that's one we should all adopt. While I've never heard of any confusion over "jump stop," it may not be a bad idea to get that term into Rule 4.

In the end, it's all about being on the same page.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bainsey

That can be a problem. When people can simply make up definitions to suit themselves, it can only cause confusion and rule myths for everyone else.

Panther's example is certainly a legal move, but it's not a jump stop. While the NFHS doesn't have a definition, the NCAA does, and I believe that's one we should all adopt. While I've never heard of any confusion over "jump stop," it may not be a bad idea to get that term into Rule 4.

In the end, it's all about being on the same page.

Do you have something that gives Panther's move a name?

We just have to accept that, sometimes, there will be terminology in use that doesn't precisely match the book. This term is so widely used to describe both moves that there is no point in arguing that one is not a jump stop....they both are.

[wanja]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Do you have something that gives Panther's move a name?

It is simply the legal establishment and subsequent legal movement of a pivot foot. It is not a jump stop. The original poster posed the question of is it legal to take a step after a jump stop. The answer is unequivocally no for 4 of the major rules codes (NFHS, NCAA, NBA and FIBA). The WNBA rules explicitly allow it.

As bainsey alluded to, this discussion points to the importance of using definitions as provided by the rules bodies rather than as commonly assumed by coaches and others.

[CallMeMrRef]

When training on the legal pivot movements around a jump stop, I refer to the play where the player catches the ball in the air (catches on a pass, rebound, or ends dribble) lands on one foot and then alights to 2 feet simultaneously as a "HOP STOP". This is a subset of all Jump stops - difference being when control of the ball is established before landing on (alighting off) 1 foot or after landing on one foot.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by wanja

As bainsey alluded to, this discussion points to the importance of using definitions as provided by the rules bodies rather than as commonly assumed by coaches and others.

Now you got the idea. Forget about "jump stops" or "hop steps"(whateverthehell they are), etc. completely and just call "traveling".

T-R-A-V-E-L-I-N-G!!

That way we won't have stoopid 2-page discusions like these that just confuse newer officials.

[Judtech]

I don't know about newer officials but I know there were plenty of officials scratching their heads at the NCAA preseason meetings.
To me the key take away point is when the pivot foot is established. If you get that, it makes the play somewhat easier. It is a tough move to describe, it is a sort of "have to see it" play.
As a federal judge and a congressman were famously quoted "I can't tell you what it is, but I know it when I see it" (paraphrased, sorry Mr Flint)

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

This term is so widely used to describe both moves that there is no point in arguing that one is not a jump stop....they both are.

Two counterpoints here:

First, it's not a jump stop, for aformentioned reasons here.

Second, we have enough difficulty battling rule myths and misconceptions out there. These myths and general ignorance are, often times, the basis for misunderstandings about our work and rulings. We don't need to add "jump stop" to the list of misunderstood terms, when we already have so many other with which to deal.

You don't to argue what the correct term is. Simply state it. If they don't like it, you're not the one starting the argument.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Two counterpoints here:

First, it's not a jump stop, for aformentioned reasons here.

Second, we have enough difficulty battling rule myths and misconceptions out there. These myths and general ignorance are, often times, the basis for misunderstandings about our work and rulings. We don't need to add "jump stop" to the list of misunderstood terms, when we already have so many other with which to deal.

You don't to argue what the correct term is. Simply state it. If they don't like it, you're not the one starting the argument.

Or one could simply adhere to the definitions given in the NCAA rules book!

Rule 4
Section 44. Jump Stop
Art. 1. A jump stop is executed when a player catches the ball while moving
or dribbling with:
a. One foot on the playing court, jumps off that foot and lands
simultaneously on both feet (no pivot foot).
b. Two feet off the playing court, lands on one foot, jumps off that foot
and lands simultaneously on both feet (no pivot foot).
Art. 2. A jump stop may also be executed when the dribbler has one foot on
the playing court, initiates a jump off that foot, ends the dribble with both
feet off the playing court and lands simultaneously on both feet (either foot
can be established as the pivot foot).

[wanja]

Jump stop definition.

What part of jump off one foot and land on 2 is unclear?

Do see the NCAA rule below. The "Did you see that jump stop?" article in the current issue of Referee magazine also restates the jump stop definition emphasizing jump off one font and land on two as follows:

A player may catch the ball while airborne, land on one foot and then jump to land on both feet simultaneously. or may catch the ball while on one foot and then jump to two simultaneously. The key is from one foot alone to two feet together. Any other variation is traveling.


NCAA Rule 4
Section 44. Jump Stop
Art. 1. A jump stop is executed when a player catches the ball while moving
or dribbling with:
a. One foot on the playing court, jumps off that foot and lands simultaneously on both feet (no pivot foot).
b. Two feet off the playing court, lands on one foot, jumps off that foot and lands simultaneously on both feet (no pivot foot).
Art. 2. A jump stop may also be executed when the dribbler has one foot onthe playing court, initiates a jump off that foot, ends the dribble with both feet off the playing court and lands simultaneously on both feet (either foot can be established as the pivot foot).[/QUOTE]