Annual NF rule change thread

[Adam]

JR, I have to say, I played during the Reagan and Bush (41) years, and I would do it also. I can't say how often it worked, and I can remember times it didn't work; but I also remember it worked occasionally. When I played, we still raised our hands out of respect when called for a foul. Also, I can't confirm nor deny that there may have been officials in my small town enforcing a rule that no longer existed.

[Judtech]

JR I stand corrected, I don't remember any official running up and pointing right at a player. So my definition of Birddog may be incorrect. I was thinking it was just pointing in the general direction.
We were taught since high school to raise our hands when we fouled, say thank you to the referee's when they handed us the ball, always retrieve balls that went astray, and hand the ball to the official during TO's fouls etc. As far as I know it was a team rule in HS (not a State rule) and in college I know it wasn't a rule, but I kept that habit, and the others, throughout college.
So I am not really sure what you are objecting too. Are you calling BS on the fact that I raised my hand when fouled, or when another player near me fouled? Or are you calling BS on the fact that I was successful in convincing the officials I WAS to fouling player by raising my hand?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

JR, I have to say, I played during the Reagan and Bush (41) years, and I would do it also. I can't say how often it worked, and I can remember times it didn't work; but I also remember it worked occasionally. When I played, we still raised our hands out of respect when called for a foul. Also, I can't confirm nor deny that there may have been officials in my small town enforcing a rule that no longer existed.

And you can do it today and it might work also. But it wouldn't and didn't work when the mandatory raising-the-hand rule was in effect because every single foul was bird-dogged. That's when bird-dogging started as a mechanic. The mechanics issued stated that we had to go right up to every single player that we called a foul on before they raised a hand, point at them and hold that point until they raised their hand. We were pointing and going to the player as we called the foul, not after we called the foul. That's why another player raising their hand wouldn't come into play.

We may have called a foul on the wrong player occasionally, but if we did it had absolutely nothing to do with any other player raising their hand. It was just a mistake.

[Adam]

I don't know, JR, I'll bet there were are some officials who, when faced with the a foul committed in a crowd, would gladly assign it to the player who attempted to own up to it rather than hit the guy who already had 4.

And while the rule may have been to ask the player after you bird dogged him, we never waited to be asked; especially in this situation. The whole idea was to take the foul, so waiting until the official actually pointed to the other guy would be pointless.

I'm not saying it was rampant or even common; but I find it highly plausible. Now, whether this could happen at the collegiate level (even NAIA) is another debate entirely; but I wouldn't be surprised if the "keep the star in the game" mentality exists in some small college officials.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Judtech

JR I stand corrected, I don't remember any official running up and pointing right at a player. So my definition of Birddog may be incorrect. I was thinking it was just pointing in the general direction.
We were taught since high school to raise our hands when we fouled, say thank you to the referee's when they handed us the ball, always retrieve balls that went astray, and hand the ball to the official during TO's fouls etc. As far as I know it was a team rule in HS (not a State rule) and in college I know it wasn't a rule, but I kept that habit, and the others, throughout college.
So I am not really sure what you are objecting too. Are you calling BS on the fact that I raised my hand when fouled, or when another player near me fouled? Or are you calling BS on the fact that I was successful in convincing the officials I WAS to fouling player by raising my hand?

I have no doubt that you may have occasionally gotten away with taking a foul for a teammate by raising your hand and raising a l'il confusion at the same time. A player can still do that today with an inattentive official. But you couldn't have done it when that stoopid rule that IndianaRef(jokingly, thank God) suggested be resurrected was in place. It was an absolutely terrible rule to administer, which is why it disappeared almost as quickly as it was instituted.

That was my point. Your getting away with taking a foul for a teammate had absolutely nothing to do with that particular old rule being discussed. When that stoopid rule was in place, it was almost impossible for any player to take a foul for a teammate. That was maybe the only good thing about it.

[Mark Padgett]

For those of you newbies who aren't familiar with the term "bird dog", here's a picture of one.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And while the rule may have been to ask the player after you bird dogged him, we never waited to be asked; especially in this situation. The whole idea was to take the foul, so waiting until the official actually pointed to the other guy would be pointless.

And the old mechanic given to us was to start pointing at the fouler AS we blew the whistle, and then continue pointing ar him as we ran to that player. As a player, you wouldn't even know a foul was being called on your teammate until AFTER the bird-dogging mechanic was in process on your teammate. If you tried to raise your hand and take the foul for somebody else at that time, you'd either be laughed at or warned to cut that crap out.

And note that we also never asked the player anything. We just bird-dogged and told the player that he/she committed the foul. There was no confusion.

Of course, that's unless you were in the habit of raising your hand immediately every single time you heard a whistle...which somehow I doubt.

[Adam]

If I had a good idea the foul was committed by the teammate near me who didn't have as many left, I did raise it pretty quick.

I'm just curious, but are you saying officials were less inclined then to call a foul and mix up the fouler (in a crowd of arms) with that mechanic?

I'm seeing the bird-dog as irrelevant here, but I never really officiated much when it was required.

[Mark Padgett]

I think we should add a new mechanic for over-the-back. Here's what I suggest. First, we get one of the hot moms out of the stands. Then, we.....er, I'd better stop there - I think I hear my wife coming into the room!

[Scuba_ref]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

I think we should add a new mechanic for over-the-back. Here's what I suggest. First, we get one of the hot moms out of the stands. Then, we.....er, I'd better stop there - I think I hear my wife coming into the room!

Another reason to have them courtside and not 5 rows up! Wait, i think I hear your wife coming...gotta go!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm just curious, but are you saying officials were less inclined then to call a foul and mix up the fouler (in a crowd of arms) with that mechanic?

We sureasheck were a heckuva lot less inclined to mix up the fouler with the bird-dogging mechanic that was given to us at that time. You called the foul, noted the player and immediately went directly to that player, just a-pointing away at the same time. You almost had tunnel vision, focusing on the fouler as you came in.

You may have called a foul on a wrong player originally in a mess of 'em, but a teammate raising their arm after you blew your whistle and started bird-dogging never confused us one little bit. We already had our mind made up by then.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Scuba_ref

Wait, i think I hear your wife coming...gotta go!

Ask her when dinner will be ready. Thanks.