Lgp

Refsmitty · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 05, 2010, 01:20pm

Play in the lane - A1 defender on the floor - B1 gets rebound and falls over A1 - travel or foul?

Adam · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 05, 2010, 01:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refsmitty

Play in the lane - A1 defender on the floor - B1 gets rebound and falls over A1 - travel or foul?

NFHS: Travel, assuming B1 A1 isn't moving. LGP isn't relevant if his lying still. If he's moving, he's liable.

NCAA: Foul on B1 A1.

rwest · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 05, 2010, 01:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refsmitty

Play in the lane - A1 defender on the floor - B1 gets rebound and falls over A1 - travel or foul?

It depends on how he got there. If B1 goes up for a rebound and comes straight down, then I have a foul because B1 is entitled to his spot on the floor and he beat A1 to it. B1 has to have a place to land. If A1 was on the floor before B1 jumped and A1 didn't move, then you can have a travel. Every player is entitled to a spot on the floor and NHSA says that even a player lying on the floor is LGP. There's a case play that says as much. I don't agree with it, but I don't make the rules. I just enforce them.

rwest · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 05, 2010, 01:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

NFHS: Travel, assuming B1 isn't moving. LGP isn't relevant if his lying still. If he's moving, he's liable.

NCAA: Foul on B1.

I think you meant A1 isn't moving. He is the one lying on the floor. Lying still isn't relevant if A1 got to that spot after B1 was airborne.

Adam · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 05, 2010, 01:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwest

It depends on how he got there. If B1 goes up for a rebound and comes straight down, then I have a foul because B1 is entitled to his spot on the floor and he beat A1 to it. B1 has to have a place to land. If A1 was on the floor before B1 jumped and A1 didn't move, then you can have a travel. Every player is entitled to a spot on the floor and NHSA says that even a player lying on the floor is LGP. There's a case play that says as much. I don't agree with it, but I don't make the rules. I just enforce them.

Lying on the floor isn't LGP, but it's a legal position on the floor. He's not liable if he ain't moving. If he's moving, he'd better have liability insurance (Padgett sells it).

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwest

I think you meant A1 isn't moving. He is the one lying on the floor. Lying still isn't relevant if A1 got to that spot after B1 was airborne.

You're correct, dang it. I'm so used to B1 being the defender I don't always triple check my responses.

And you're right, if A1 gets there after B1 goes airborne, foul on A1.

shutupneff · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 05, 2010, 01:57pm

What would it take for you to call a PC foul on B1?

Jurassic Referee · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 05, 2010, 01:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by shutupneff

What would it take for you to call a PC foul on B1?

Illegal contact instead of incidental contact.

mbyron · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 05, 2010, 02:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by shutupneff

What would it take for you to call a PC foul on B1?

Hard to envision how you could have PC. The defender is in no position to perform "normal defensive actions," so how could anyone put him at a disadvantage.

Flagrant or intentional are certainly possible, however.

Adam · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 05, 2010, 02:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron

Hard to envision how you could have PC. The defender is in no position to perform "normal defensive actions," so how could anyone put him at a disadvantage.

Flagrant or intentional are certainly possible, however.

If he's trying to get up, I could see it. However, if the contact creates a travel or causes B1 to lose the ball OOB, go with the violation.

rwest · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 05, 2010, 02:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by shutupneff

What would it take for you to call a PC foul on B1?

If B1 is just coming down from getting a rebound and doesn't doing anything out of the ordinary, the only thing I could have is either a travel or block. He would have to intentional stomp on A1. If that's the case I'm going with a flagrant and his night is done! I say this is unlikely because this play is going to happen so fast he isn't going to have time to think about doing something so stupid as intentionally kick A1. He is gathering the rebound and then coming back to the ground where he then falls. At that point we have a travel or block. If he then kicks A1 we have dead ball contact and if we are going to call it, it will have to be either an intentional or flagrant technical.

mbyron · #11 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 05, 2010, 02:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If he's trying to get up, I could see it. However, if the contact creates a travel or causes B1 to lose the ball OOB, go with the violation.

Sorry, I still can't envision what you have in mind. A ball carrier keeping a player down on the floor? With what, his foot? Shoving him back down? I think I'm going intentional with either of those.

shutupneff · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 05, 2010, 02:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwest

If B1 is just coming down from getting a rebound and doesn't doing anything out of the ordinary, the only thing I could have is either a travel or block. He would have to intentional stomp on A1. If that's the case I'm going with a flagrant and his night is done! I say this is unlikely because this play is going to happen so fast he isn't going to have time to think about doing something so stupid as intentionally kick A1. He is gathering the rebound and then coming back to the ground where he then falls. At that point we have a travel or block. If he then kicks A1 we have dead ball contact and if we are going to call it, it will have to be either an intentional or flagrant technical.

This is what I was thinking (possible intentional or flagrant, but not common). However, I was envisioning B1 landing ON A1. I'd still likely call it incidental (except maybe in a youth league), but wanted some other opinions.