Patient Whistle
 

GV County Game - I'm the trail, 4th Q, team A up 6, 2 min left and in the double bonus.

B1 guarding A1 who receives a pass, strikes A1 in the face while attempting to steal ball. I am straightlined and don't see the contact, but observe A1s reaction to contact as she grabs for her face. I blow a very late whistle for foul on B1.


Called a foul for contact I did not observe directly, but must have happened.

Coach of B wasn't happy but understood and agreed with the call.

Not sure I'd have called that.

I have had plays where I wasn't sure if there was contact to the face but upon seeing the reaction then blew my whistle.

+1 Based on post, I wouldn't guess.

Had you passed on the foul because you didn't see the contact, the coach of A likely wouldn't have been happy. Best to hold your whistle unless you directly observe the contact.

as I have worked w/ officials from higher levels (D1 and NBA) this season, it's been interesting to watch them only blow the whistle when they see the foul/violation. your call accuracy goes up when you only "call what you see". much better to blow when you know what happened rather than to guess (of course, you may guess right sometimes - but they don't pay us to be right "sometimes")....

Was this two person or three person?

If you don't see it, you can't call it.

Partners input
 

It was 2 person. Partner saw the contact but was not blowing a foul right in front of me.

So you guessed right.

I think the title of this thread should be "Not Guessing" instead of "Patient Whistle" because they two different topics :-)

I have no problem with this. When you've been at it long enough you know what a genuine reaction to contact looks like, even if you didn't actually see it.

You can also call out of bounds without actually seeing the player step on the line. He looks down, then looks at you. It's written all over his face.

"And so it goes, and so it goes. And you're the only one who knows."

Im sure there will be plenty on here who might disagree with this and some who might:

Sometimes you can use visual cues to "aid" your playcalling, i.e., a player who jumps off both feet is a lot less likely to have illegal trajectory than a player who jumps off of one foot. A hit to the face is something that you absolutely can't miss. It can cause the player who got hit to not only be mad at you bc you missed what he/she knows is an obvious foul but also it gives that player more cause to retaliate later on seeking "justice" for what you did not call. I believe hits to the face spark more rage by the involved player than any other missed call in basketball. The player reacting as she did to the swing is a strong visual cue that she was indeed hit. I don't know many players at the college level and below who fake getting hit in the face, nose, etc. It happens a good amount at the pro level because these guys are masters at fool the ref type plays, but amateur athletes, I have come to find out, rarely, if ever fake getting hit in the face. If you are watching the whole play and see the swing and the reaction, but somehow don't absolutely see the exact time of contact, I believe you are still justified in using the visual cue and Basketball IQ to whistle this a foul.

and btw, jurassic it is good to see you back on the forum. I don't know where you went but its been too long.

Sounds like your partner should've called it with a patient whistle. If you see something in your partner's primary, wait a beat for them to call it and, using that time, figure out if they didn't have the best angle for some reason (straightlined etc.). If so, blow your whistle and save your partner.

I had a play a few weeks ago where I was caught out of position and would have liked the help. I was new trail in 2-whistle. A1 made an unexpected attempt to blow by B1 just passed midcourt, and I got stuck behind the play. B1 tried to get in front of A1 but never obtained LGP, contact (which I couldn't see) occurs, A1 stumbles and B1 falls to the floor. I waited a beat, decided a foul had definitely occurred even if I didn't see the actual contact and blew my whistle and put my fist up. I waited another beat to replay it in my head and then signaled a block, and almost everyone in the gym starts screaming that it was a stiff arm. I realize that, if it was, I'd had the absolute worst angle on the play and call my partner over.
"Did you see the contact?"
"Oh yeah. Blatant stiff arm."
I signal a PC foul. Team A coach wasn't happy, but that was mainly because he lost his best player to a fifth foul in a close game. Afterwards, I told my partner exactly what I said in the first paragraph.

Thanks for the "welcome back", Ben. Appreciated.

And here's something that you might find interesting.....:D

Top Israel basketball coach questioned in tax evasion case - Haaretz - Israel News

I'm not sure if I'm going to go to my partner in this situation. Especially after I've come out with a preliminary. What's to stop the coach from asking you to go to your partner and change any of your judgment calls after you've already set precedent to do so?

Agree 100% - if your partner saw a "blantant stiff arm" - why did he/she not call the foul? If you didn't see it, why did you?

You're asking for a heap of trouble with this...

And I'd bet the coach was upset for a lot more than his player fouling out.

I'm Not Guessing ...
 

Boys varsity. I'm the lead hanging back near the division line, table side, helping my partner with a press/press break situation. Offensive team is doing a good job at breaking the press, and several players from both teams are moving into the front court. As I'm making a quarter turn with my body to pay attention to the players in the front court, out of the corner of my eye I "kind of" see a player about ten feet behind me "maybe" take a few steps. I never really had a pivot foot picked out, so I passed on it, and started thinking about the crap I was about to get from the coach when my partner, as the trail, calls the travel even though he's about twenty-five feet away from the player. Thanks partner. Later he told me that he saw me make that quarter turn. That's what partners are for.

Hahaha!! Way too funny. I have no idea what u r talkin about. That guy and I are best friends. Besides all the cussing he directed at me we are cool. Haha

Might want to cut him some slack, Ben. Looks like he was under a bit of pressure. :)

I guess I should add some context. This was a 7/8B Boys & Girls youth league with (ahem) minimally trained refs, and my partner was 1st year and still in the tail end of his "afraid to blow the whistle" phase. When I first took a beat before blowing mine, I saw that there was no one between him and the play and hoped he would call it. When I saw he wasn't going to, I did even though I was only wanout 85% certain a defensive foul had occurred. In hindsight, I'll admit that I probably should have let it go, and I definitely shouldn't have been caught out of position (in my defense, it was my fifth game of the day, and my legs were tired).

Under most circumstances, at a higher level or with a more experienced partner, had I still made those two mistakes, I would have had a "if I missed it I missed ut, but it's what I called" attitude. But I would hope thaty partner would have blown his whistle during my initial pause, and at least would have come in after I signaled the block, and we could've at least had a blarge (I'd rather get it half right than all wrong).

And my main point stands: if you see something in your partner's area and see that they didn't see it, call it.

With rare exceptions (this situation qualifies), I disagree. If you know your partner got straightlined off of a stiff-arm type foul, maybe.

I can't remember who it was, but someone on here
mentioned the three types of foul theory (hmmm, that was a foul; That was a foul!; THAT WAS A FOUL!!!), and you should pass on anything in the first category out of your zone, always call anything in the third category, and only call the second category out of your zone if your partner was straightlined or looking the wrong way. That's what I was trying to say, except I forgot about the first category, and that the majority of contact falls in it. It was clear in my head, but when I tried to write it down, I was definitely guilty of an always/never violation.

If you disagree with me further, well, okay.

If You Use It, I Get 10% ...
 

Nope, I don't disagree.