Who ReJumps?

[Zoochy]

Game starts with jumpers A1 and B1. A1 legally tips the ball. The ball hits the ground and there is a scramble for the ball. Nobody gains control of the ball. People dive on the ground, A2 and B2 both gain control. Tweet. Jump ball.
Who rejumps? A2 and B2 or the original jumpers?

[SAJ]

NHFS 7.3.2

If the alternating-possession procedure has not been established, play shall be resumed by a jump ball between the two players involved in the center restraining circle.

[Kelvin green]

I will have to disagree although 7-3-2 talks about this rule 6-4 governs and specifically directs us to have A2 and B2 do the jump

6.4.1 SITUATION C: Following the jump between A1 and B1 to start the first
quarter, the jump ball: (a) is touched by A2 and it then goes out of bounds; (b) is touched simultaneously by A2 and B2 and it then goes out of bounds; (c) is simultaneously controlled by A2 and B2; or (d) is caught by A1. RULING: In (a),Team B will have a throw-in. The alternating-possession procedure is established and the arrow is set toward A’s basket when a player of Team B has the ball for the throw-in. Team A will have the first opportunity to throw-in when the procedure s used. In (b) and (c), A2 and B2 will jump in the center restraining circle regardless of where the ball went out or where the held ball occurred. In (d), Team B will have a throw-in because of the violation and the arrow for the alternatingpossession will be pointed towards Team A’s basket. (4-12-1; 4-28-1)

[Back In The Saddle]

NFHS, the two players that tied up the ball jump. NCAA, any two players jump.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by SAJ

NHFS 7.3.2

If the alternating-possession procedure has not been established, play shall be resumed by a jump ball between the two players involved in the center restraining circle.

As Kelvin said, right ruling but wrong citation to back it up.

Rule 7-3-2 isn't relevant. It's concerned with dual touching before going OOB, not dual possession established in-bounds. Different situations but with the same basic ruling.

Case book play 6.4.1SitC(c) as posted is the correct cite. Casebook play 6.4.1SitC(b) covers rule 7-3-2.

Btw and fyi, rules citations use dashes between the numbers and case book plays use dots between the numbers. That's how we can tell immediately which you are referring to.

[SAJ]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

As Kelvin said, right ruling but wrong citation to back it up.

Rule 7-3-2 isn't relevant. It's concerned with dual touching before going OOB, not dual possession established in-bounds. Different situations but with the same basic ruling.

Case book play 6.4.1SitC(c) as posted is the correct cite. Casebook play 6.4.1SitC(b) covers rule 7-3-2.

Btw and fyi, rules citations use dashes between the numbers and case book plays use dots between the numbers. That's how we can tell immediately which you are referring to.

sigh...same result

case book play talks about dual touching oob as well...dual touching oob/dual touching ib....same procedure

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by SAJ

sigh...same result

case book play talks about dual touching oob as well...dual touching oob/dual touching ib....same procedure

sigh....rule 7-3-2 as cited by yourself wasn't relevant to the situation posted. Right answer---->wrong rule cited to back it up.

Kelvin gave the correct rules citation....and that was both his & my point.

[SAJ]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

sigh....rule 7-3-2 as cited by yourself wasn't relevant to the situation posted. Right answer---->wrong rule cited to back it up.

Kelvin gave the correct rules citation....and that was both his & my point.

I guess I don't see where I'm wrong. Both are based on the rule 7-3-2. Where in the rule book is the held ball situation as presented defined? I don't think it explicitly states it except in 7-3-2 as I posted.

Either way, both have ultimately given the OP a correct ruling on the play in question. I'm fine with that.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SAJ

I guess I don't see where I'm wrong. Both are based on the rule 7-3-2. Where in the rule book is the held ball situation as presented defined? I don't think it explicitly states it except in 7-3-2 as I posted.

Either way, both have ultimately given the OP a correct ruling on the play in question. I'm fine with that.

7-3-2 is the rule for out of bounds. It works if two players simultaneously cause the ball to go out of bounds; it doesn't work for a held ball. Sure, you could use it and go with the precedent if you had to, but you don't have to because of rule 6-4-3(note). More specifically, consider 6-4-3a (held ball), and the note below all of 6-4-3, "If the alternating possession procedure has not been established, the jump ball shall be between the two players involved in the center restraining circle."

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by SAJ

I guess I don't see where I'm wrong. Both are based on the rule 7-3-2. Where in the rule book is the held ball situation as presented defined? I don't think it explicitly states it except in 7-3-2 as I posted.

Either way, both have ultimately given the OP a correct ruling on the play in question. I'm fine with that.

Rule 7-3-2 tells us what to call if the ball is simultaneously touched and then goes OOB(as in rule 7-3-1) and the AP procedure is not yet established.

The situation being discussed in the original post was a completely different situation that the one outlined in 7-3-1. The situation being discussed was dual possession after a jump ball without the ball going OOB, and also with no AP procedure being set yet.

Apples and oranges....and 2 completely different situations.

Both situations are handled the exact same way but each different situation also has a different rule citation to back up their respective calls.

You got the call right but the rule citation that you used was wrong iow. You used a rule citation that is valid for a completely different situation. That's all that was being pointed out.

The correct rules citation for what to do for a held ball off an an opening jump ball as discussed in the original post is rule 6-4-3(a)NOTE, not rule 7-3-2.....even though they both have the exact same result.

No biggie anyway. I think the idea has been gotten across already anyway.

EDIT: or as what Snaqs said...

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by SAJ

I guess I don't see where I'm wrong. Both are based on the rule 7-3-2. Where in the rule book is the held ball situation as presented defined? I don't think it explicitly states it except in 7-3-2 as I posted.

Either way, both have ultimately given the OP a correct ruling on the play in question. I'm fine with that.

This is like saying that there's no difference between illegal dribble and traveling because the penalty for both is a throw-in.

[SAJ]

Originally Posted by mbyron

This is like saying that there's no difference between illegal dribble and traveling because the penalty for both is a throw-in.

My point, I guess terribly made, is that these are jump ball procedures with no alternating possession arrow currently set. Call em apples and oranges if you want.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by SAJ

My point, I guess terribly made, is that these are jump ball procedures with no alternating possession arrow currently set. Call em apples and oranges if you want.

If you stuck to original OP, that's what we were looking for. You meandered a little, but all is clear for both situations.

[sseltser]

Originally Posted by SAJ

My point, I guess terribly made, is that these are jump ball procedures with no alternating possession arrow currently set. Call em apples and oranges if you want.

So for this play:

Jump ball tipped by A1 into A's backcourt. A2 and B2 chase after it and A2 and B2 simultaneously foul each other.

Must A2 and B2 re-jump? Are they "the two player's involved" as in 6-4-3-Note? Does the "two player's involved" mean the jumpers (and the Note is just pointing out the location), or the players who caused the tie-up, double foul, double violation, simultaneous OOB?

Back to my play: What if the foul disqualifies one or both of the players (either 5th foul during OT, or double flagrant)? Must their substitutes re-jump?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by sseltser

So for this play:

Jump ball tipped by A1 into A's backcourt. A2 and B2 chase after it and A2 and B2 simultaneously foul each other.

Must A2 and B2 re-jump? Are they "the two player's involved" as in 6-4-3-Note? Does the "two player's involved" mean the jumpers (and the Note is just pointing out the location), or the players who caused the tie-up, double foul, double violation, simultaneous OOB?

Back to my play: What if the foul disqualifies one or both of the players (either 5th foul during OT, or double flagrant)? Must their substitutes re-jump?

Yep...A2 and B2 jump....and the player's sub if DQd.