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EndEx Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:12am

Crew Integrity
 
I was watching a boys varsity game tonight and I was able to watch the progression of how an official can undermine a partner without realizing it.
I'm sitting right behind the V bench.

Early 1st quarter, H1 throws a pass towards H2. V1 deflects it, though, and it hits the C in the feet before going OOB. Coach thinks it hit H2's feet, and protests the call. C explains it to him, takes a bit long doing it, and she tells him he needs to get back into the coaching box. Just as she's about to put the ball in play, the T hits his whistle and comes across to try to give her new info. She tells him what happened, and he agrees and they play on.

T's approach egged on the V coach. Fast forward to another close OOB call near the other bench, where she (I think) points the wrong way. Same partner approaches her and she agrees and they give the ball to V. As they're talking, V coach in front of me yells: "You've got to help her out!" It was interesting.

If you heard it, who here would have T'd him for that last comment?

just another ref Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:16am

Wasn't there, may not appreciate the context, but for that comment alone I would emphatically say no T.

APG Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:19am

While I wouldn't be happy to hear the comment, the comment be itself wouldn't earn a technical foul from me.

LeeBallanfant Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:31am

Quote:

Originally Posted by EndEx (Post 662391)
I was watching a boys varsity game tonight and I was able to watch the progression of how an official can undermine a partner without realizing it.
I'm sitting right behind the V bench.

Early 1st quarter, H1 throws a pass towards H2. V1 deflects it, though, and it hits the C in the feet before going OOB. Coach thinks it hit H2's feet, and protests the call. C explains it to him, takes a bit long doing it, and she tells him he needs to get back into the coaching box. Just as she's about to put the ball in play, the T hits his whistle and comes across to try to give her new info. She tells him what happened, and he agrees and they play on.

T's approach egged on the V coach. Fast forward to another close OOB call near the other bench, where she (I think) points the wrong way. Same partner approaches her and she agrees and they give the ball to V. As they're talking, V coach in front of me yells: "You've got to help her out!" It was interesting.

If you heard it, who here would have T'd him for that last comment?

If I was the Female Ref I would have T'd him. If I was the other official I would ignore it.

deecee Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeBallanfant (Post 662401)
If I was the Female Ref I would have T'd him. If I was the other official I would ignore it.

what does the sex of the official matter?

as to that point it doesnt mean that her partner was undermining anyone. the story sounds weak.

just another ref Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 662404)
what does the sex of the official matter?


It doesn't. The coach was yelling for her partner to help her, implying that she was not able to handle the job.

deecee Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 662407)
It doesn't. The coach was yelling for her partner to help her, implying that she was not able to handle the job.

I know that part - I meant to imply that what does the sex have to do with the T. Either they get one or they dont regardless.

just another ref Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 662410)
I meant to imply that what does the sex have to do with the T.

The sex has nothing to do with it. It just so happens that in the OP the official the coach was showing up was female.

Smitty Wed Feb 17, 2010 08:24am

Quote:

Originally Posted by EndEx (Post 662391)
I was watching a boys varsity game tonight and I was able to watch the progression of how an official can undermine a partner without realizing it.
I'm sitting right behind the V bench.

Early 1st quarter, H1 throws a pass towards H2. V1 deflects it, though, and it hits the C in the feet before going OOB. Coach thinks it hit H2's feet, and protests the call. C explains it to him, takes a bit long doing it, and she tells him he needs to get back into the coaching box. Just as she's about to put the ball in play, the T hits his whistle and comes across to try to give her new info. She tells him what happened, and he agrees and they play on.

T's approach egged on the V coach. Fast forward to another close OOB call near the other bench, where she (I think) points the wrong way. Same partner approaches her and she agrees and they give the ball to V. As they're talking, V coach in front of me yells: "You've got to help her out!" It was interesting.

If you heard it, who here would have T'd him for that last comment?

How did anyone undermine anyone else? This story is not compelling in any way. No T. Just play on. Yawn...

Raymond Wed Feb 17, 2010 09:04am

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 662410)
I know that part - I meant to imply that what does the sex have to do with the T. Either they get one or they dont regardless.

He said the female official, not a female official....you need to re-read for proper context....has nothing to do with gender.

jeffpea Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by EndEx (Post 662391)
As they're talking, V coach in front of me yells: "You've got to help her out!" It was interesting.

If you heard it, who here would have T'd him for that last comment?

the quickest way to undermine yourself is to pass out unwarranted T's....no T...just inbound the ball already....

EndEx Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 662404)
what does the sex of the official matter?

as to that point it doesnt mean that her partner was undermining anyone. the story sounds weak.

It's a HTBT scenario, and it's hard to explain in words; but given how you completely misread a different poster's intent with regard to the gender of the officials, I'm not too concerned with my inability to explain it to you.

The scenario presented itself relatively slowly, as the C took allowed the coach a good amount of rope when questioning the call. When the T came over and hit his whistle, I thought he was stepping up as R to end the back and forth between the coach and the C. When he instead chose to question her call, it gave the coach the message that the R didn't really trust his partner. If nothing else, it provided him what looked like a wedge to try to work the officials.

EndEx Thu Feb 18, 2010 01:00am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffpea (Post 662691)
the quickest way to undermine yourself is to pass out unwarranted T's....no T...just inbound the ball already....

This particular play happened on the opposite end of the court, so it wasn't even heard. I'd like to change scenario slightly, though, and ask.

Let's assume the play happened in front of the coach's bench again, and this time he yells across to the T on the other court, "You've got to help her out!" With the history of the previous play, where he's obviously not just appealing to another official but is instead making a direct comment about her competence; do you "just inbound the ball already?"

deecee Thu Feb 18, 2010 01:23am

Quote:

Originally Posted by EndEx (Post 662710)
It's a HTBT scenario, and it's hard to explain in words; but given how you completely misread a different poster's intent with regard to the gender of the officials, I'm not too concerned with my inability to explain it to you.

No need to get sensitive, I can honestly not give a crap if someone wants to T here or not. You dont have to explain in words, pictures, music notes or smoke signals. I dont care.

And for further clarification I should have been specific that I was speaking to Leeballenfant because he said about T'ing if he were the woman but not the other ref. No big deal.

Raymond Thu Feb 18, 2010 09:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 662713)
...

And for further clarification I should have been specific that I was speaking to Leeballenfant because he said about T'ing if he were the woman but not the other ref. No big deal.

And you're still getting it wrong. Had nothing to do with gender. No different than if it were a 6' 9" official working with a 5' 5" official and Lee said "If I was the tall official...."


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